The main target of higher end Glock is the competition market which 95% of this board doesn't fit into. They're looking for all the features most people on this board aren't interested in because they never plan to get sent to Ukraine and need ultimate reliability. If they can get a flatter shooting gun with a better trigger, a lighter cycling slide, and acceptable reliability, then they're more likely to buy a higher end Glock clone that has most of what they want done and then send it off for some finishing touches.

As far as competing with Glock on price, MOS Gen 5s are about $650-700 sticker which is what a P226 was 20 years ago. As far as other brands competing with Glock on price, the Shadow System Foundation models sticker at $679 with a better trigger, metal sights, a slide with less machine work than full Gucci, direct milled for an RMR instead of the janky Glock MOS plates, and a grip that can be changed from a Glock style grip to a 1911 style grip.

Mono,

I hear what you’re saying and would tend to agree if not for seeing some crazy ass examples of what people will spend their money on.

There may be folks that look at my Nill grips or night sights and go, “why would you waste that money?”, and conversely, I think the same thing about compensators, fancy triggers, fancy aftermarket slides.

Hell I JUST bought my first milled slide, at a 33% sale price , but talked myself out of the aftermarket barrel for now.

It’s just the way folks spend their money.

I think every brand needs to find their niche. The zev seems like a fine pistol but it's niche is or should be considered a competition pistol where tight tolerance, extra weight, and porting might have the most benefit. In this role people tend to pay extra for that edge.
While a zev 0z9c could be carried, I see more drawbacks to all the bells and whistles. It's less of a tool and bordering on jewelry, who pulls their carry gun out to show off the bling? I had an acquaintance do this at a church small group once and it was uncomfortable for everyone including half the room that happened to be carrying.
The zev chassis seems more of a drawback in a carry gun too. Why carry something heavier than its nearly identical twin the g19. If zev made a swappable fcu minus the Pic rail similar to sig but for glock style pistols I wonder if that would bridge the gap between competition and carry?
Another thing that might prevent me from carrying a zev/Gucci glock if I owned one was fear of prosecution. Sure you'd have a capable fighting handgun but if you've followed any defensive shooting cases, a creative prosecution will pick apart every choice you make to use it against you. You'd no doubt be called a John Wick copycat with fantasies of getting into a shootout. A great example of this is the Rittenhouse case. His choice in video games was used against him. Thank God they were unsuccessful.
For that reason alone I'd rather have a simple commonly used and owned tool without all the add on crap.

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
Another thing that might prevent me from carrying a zev/Gucci glock if I owned one was fear of prosecution. Sure you'd have a capable fighting handgun but if you've followed any defensive shooting cases, a creative prosecution will pick apart every choice you make to use it against you. You'd no doubt be called a John Wick copycat with fantasies of getting into a shootout. A great example of this is the Rittenhouse case. His choice in video games was used against him. Thank God they were unsuccessful.
For that reason alone I'd rather have a simple commonly used and owned tool without all the add on crap.

Massad Ayoob has spent at least 30 years trying to find a case where that happened and he hasn't found one and no one has presented one. If you're in a gun hater jurisdiction, you'll be crucified just for carrying a gun, much less one that's modified, even though you can argue the modifications makes you a more precise shooter and puts others at less risk.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
Another thing that might prevent me from carrying a zev/Gucci glock if I owned one was fear of prosecution. Sure you'd have a capable fighting handgun but if you've followed any defensive shooting cases, a creative prosecution will pick apart every choice you make to use it against you. You'd no doubt be called a John Wick copycat with fantasies of getting into a shootout. A great example of this is the Rittenhouse case. His choice in video games was used against him. Thank God they were unsuccessful.
For that reason alone I'd rather have a simple commonly used and owned tool without all the add on crap.

Massad Ayoob has spent at least 30 years trying to find a case where that happened and he hasn't found one and no one has presented one. If you're in a gun hater jurisdiction, you'll be crucified just for carrying a gun, much less one that's modified, even though you can argue the modifications makes you a more precise shooter and puts others at less risk.

I doubt there's a more knowledgeable source than Mas so I can't argue that. Does he say a case has never been won or or there's no such case where a prosecutor used the type of weapo n against a defensive shooter? It would surprise me if it's not commonly used but easily defendable with a competent attorney. I agree the simple act of a gun is going to be vilified in many parts of the country.
Perhaps it'ssome my own bias. When I see the those punisher back plates for glocks or stickers on trucks, I cringe a little.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: amc,

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
The main target of higher end Glock is the competition market which 95% of this board doesn't fit into.

Another category most SIGforum members don't fit into is behaving like a spoiled 17 year old trust fund baby sitting on a pile of loot.

Just an observation. For the life of me, I don't know why that popped into my head.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Another category most SIGforum members don't fit into is behaving like a spoiled 17 year old trust fund baby sitting on a pile of loot.

Just an observation. For the life of me, I don't know why that popped into my head.

I hope that wasn't directed at me since I don't own any Zev product nor have I ever denied that this is a Glock clone.

No, it wasn't directed at you, doesn't describe you at all. Apologies for using your post in such a manner.

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
I doubt there's a more knowledgeable source than Mas so I can't argue that. Does he say a case has never been won or or there's no such case where a prosecutor used the type of weapon against a defensive shooter? It would surprise me if it's not commonly used but easily dependable with a competent attorney. I agree the simple act of a gun is going to be vilified in many parts of the country.

The best quote I found from Ayoob was that he has been "unable after repeated requests to have him cite cases where gun mods made any sort of difference in a justified self-defense shooting." In regards to unjustified shootings, you're just screwed even if you put a legal full auto sear on a carry Glock. No one will care about your Mandalorian Cerakote and barrel porting if you shoot down an innocent party.

quote:

Perhaps it'ssome my own bias. When I see the those punisher back plates for glocks or stickers on trucks, I cringe a little.

You can buy quality but not always taste.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
No, it wasn't directed at you, doesn't describe you at all. Apologies for using your post in such a manner.

All cool.

quote:

Originally posted by amc:
The zev seems like a fine pistol but it's niche is or should be considered a competition pistol where tight tolerance, extra weight, and porting might have the most benefit...
While a zev 0z9c could be carried, I see more drawbacks to all the bells and whistles.

RDS, slide cuts, ports, comps, aftermarket triggers, etc - if you think that stuff is too frivolous & unreliable to have made its way into the high speed, low drag operator & SOF crowd, you'd be wrong. Go read the link in my post on pg 7 of this thread about Dept of Energy Office of Secure Transportation detail and look up "Chuck Pressburg Roland special".

quote:

It's less of a tool and bordering on jewelry, who pulls their carry gun out to show off the bling? I had an acquaintance do this at a church small group once and it was uncomfortable for everyone including half the room that happened to be carrying.

Church is the wrong setting. You do that at a barbecue. That's where the term barbecue gun comes from.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DanH: They're looking for all the features most people on this board aren't interested in because they never plan to get sent to Ukraine and need ultimate reliability.[QUOTE]

Well I'm not going to the Ukraine or even Bagdad tomorrow, but if I was I'd be taking my 19X.

Boy, the Zev fan club is loyal. The Zev sure walks on water for them, that’s for sure.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Boy, the Zev fan club is loyal. The Zev sure walks on water for them, that’s for sure.

It is an interesting thread.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Just an observation.

Saying a Zev is not a Glock is like saying a Puffs Plus is not a Kleenex.

And then getting angry and insulting when people keep disagreeing with you about it. That’s about the perfect summary of this situation.

Give them some credit for this one. It's not just a Glock clone, but a clone that had a weekend in Vegas with a 2011. This is the frame of the gun:



https://www.zevtechnologies.co...t-compact-size-black

It's also on sale for $350 with the trigger already installed. All you need is a grip ($62) and a Gen 3 Glock 17/34 upper and you've undercut the prebuilt Zev by a significant amount. I'd try one, but I'm pretty much done with striker guns all together. There's too many hammer fired guns I want and not enough money to get them.

Since there is a market for "higher optioned" Glock style pistols, it's interesting that Glock has not created a higher level offering, similar to the Sig P320 Legion.

Clearly there's a market, no matter what one believes or thinks about wealthy buyers or guys that will load up a CC for the latest greatest pistol offering.

There are people who will pay for a "Gucci'd" up Glock, some for performance reasons others for being a member of the club that owns the latest greatest offering.

Interesting that they stay the course with the meat and potatoes offerings, granted a few new guns come out, MOS vs non, a few basic core embellishments on the original design, driven by market trends such as optics, which are driven by LEO sales where competition drives the change.

That would require effort, and I don't think Glock could be bothered. Glock could probably double or triple sales just by making a frame with the 1911 grip angle and leave everything else alone.

If it ain't broke...