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Originally posted by pedropcola:
So what red dot has significantly more battery life than an rmr when kept continually on a high setting?

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Originally posted by snoris:
My issue with a red dot on a self-defense/duty weapon is this (strictly from my experience and training in law enforcement, and I respect everybody's own experiences and opinions):

In a self-defense situation, there are going to be a lot of things involved. It's not just you and a static target, where you can concentrate solely on putting the little red dot on a specific place on a piece of paper or cardboard.

Along with other variables, the primary issues are:

1) The person presenting you with a deadly threat;
2) The background behind that threat (remember that you might hit innocent bystanders);
3) Things to the side of you that are also imminent threats (such as additional suspects off to the side of your primary threat), or that might affect your decision to shoot (solid cover out of the corner of your eye that you can quickly get to for protection rather than risk an out-in-the-open shootout).

My concern is that with a red-dot on a pistol, one is so focused on that little red dot and the target that the frame of the RMR might block your view of either 2) or 3) at some point during the encounter.

There's no doubt that an RMR can be very useful in a pistol. I've seen people go from being mediocre shooters with no hope of putting five rounds in five seconds on a six-inch target at 10 yards into very good shooters who can place all five rounds in there in three and a half seconds by combining an RMR and good instruction.
I'm just not sure it's the magic answer that some make it out to be for self-defense.

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So what red dot has significantly more battery life than an rmr when kept continually on a high setting?

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Originally posted by BBMW:
Technology may deal with this. Watch the first three minutes or so of this video. Primary Arms is teaming up with Holosun to build a version of one of their red dots that has a reticle that addresses the lost dot issue.

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Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
I've done the big night sight companies - Mep, Heinie, Trij - and while they have a rightful place, they aren't MY most useful sighting option.

For older eyes consider putting a florescent green fiber optic up front and solid black sight in the rear. Your eye picks up on green faster than any other color and it really pops.

You can look at Dawson Precision for some very good solutions.

I've done FO in yellow, red and green and green by far is the easiest to quickly see and put to target acquiring use.

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...the question of reliability and durability...

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Originally posted by Rodfac:
Is it really needed for defensive distances...3-7 yds...or any significant improvement on good iron sights?

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Originally posted by Rodfac:

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...the question of reliability and durability...

Big items for a defensive handgun...very big. If I drop the gun, does the light go out...can I trust it in a hand to hand fight? Is it really needed for defensive distances...3-7 yds...or any significant improvement on good iron sights? Any advantage in low light conditions over say, tritium's? Any problems with concealment or even finding holsters that accommodate?

In one of the handgun games, I can see where they're probably an advantage...but that's gamesmanship, not defensive shooting. YMMv, Rod

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Originally posted by Scooter123:
First, I'm a shotgun shooter, primarily Skeet but also shoot in Trap, 5 Stand, and Sporting Clays. With a shotgun you don't bother with the "sights", fact is that looking to the bead as you release the trigger is simply a very good way to miss. I know of some National and World champions who have the front beads removed on their shotguns because they are a distraction. With a shotgun it's all Point Shooting because when you are attempting to hit one, or two, 108mm disks moving at 35-100 mph you simply don't have time to fuss with sights.

So, how does that translate to a Defensive Shooting. A Defensive Shooting situation is all about getting shots on target as quickly as possible and pretty little groups don't mean diddly squat. In fact tiny little groups may actually be a detriment because it only opens up bleeding in one small area. Spread those shots out over the entire COM and you have a whole large area bleeding. BTW, one way to think about this is what if you have a very Fit and very Aggressive Doberman charging at you intent on eating your face off. Have you ever noticed just how fast a charging Doberman is? They are freakishly fast, make a German Shepherd look like a slow poke. So, do you really want a sight that you have to hunt for the reticle with? No, what you want to do is bring the gun up and start firing as quickly as possible.

About 5 years back I made a change to my training regimen. Was a time when I was all about shooting the prettiest tiny little group of anyone at the range. Even have 3 revolvers equipped with J Point Reflex sights. What I learned with the J Points is that I can shoot tiny little groups but I can't do it quickly and I can't break that first shot with any speed at all. It just takes too long to pick up the sight. Once I had my Epiphany about what this could cost me, my Life, I changed my training regimen to Point Shooting and practicing at 30 feet. Now the only delay in engaging a target is the amount of time it takes me to physically bring my pistol to bear on target. As for firing rate, that depends on the caliber and recoil of the handgun in use. With my Ruger LC9S it's typically in the .3 second range. With my 9mm Ruger SR1911 my split is typically in the .2 second range. As for group size, 6 inches at 30 feet is good enough to stop a Doberman.

Note, I got into the Shotgun Sports because I thought it would improve my reaction time and response to secondary targets. It did that in a huge way. However I also found that shooting at moving targets is a whole bunch more FUN that shooting paper. Anyone wants to improve there response times and methods should think about shooting some of those little clay targets, it's a real kick the first time you hit a True Pair. However I'll warn your, it's is an addictive sport. I started with just one shotgun. Now I have Pumps, Autos, Side by Sides, and Over/Unders. Also have reloading presses for 410, 28, 20, and 12 gage in my basement that see use every week.

PS; It should be obvious I voted NO on the use of Optics on a Defensive Pistol. IMO it's about as dumb a move as you can make. I've also the experience to say I was one of those dumb enough to do that and have "Been There Done That". I'll also note that pretty little groups are fine if you are shooting Bullseye but they are not suitable for practicing Defensive Shooting. You never know when you may be facing an angry Doberman or Mob.