quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by RichardC:
Israeli Carry.

Don't give Cohen any ideas.

CUT IT OUT

MNSIG, you mind your manners.

Sorry. Meant to highlight Sig's response (so far), not Richard C's comment.

Who knows, maybe history will sort of repeat itself. Everyone thinks big Army ultimately calls the shot with respect to combat arms, yet it was the Air Force that ultimately ended up being behind the adoption of the longest serving infrantry rifle in the history of the U.S. Maybe for completely different reasons, the Air Force will be the last push of momentum to get the military to drop the M17 and M18 and adopt something else? Regardless, I am grateful that the USAF had the guts to do the right thing here and force a thorough reevaluation, I just wish it wasn’t because of the accidental death of an Airman.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Sorry. Meant to highlight Sig's response (so far), not Richard C's comment.

I know what you meant

It occurs to me that it only took one dropped Smith & Wesson going off and shooting a seaman in 1945 for Smith to redesign the gun. There wasn't any nonsense about that making it a new model and having to let a new contract.

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:

Lots of information, and misinformation out there. I am very confused and am trying to remain conscientious of the safety of others and myself. I may revert back to my P229s for CCW until this quandary is resolved.

Same here. I have started carrying my 320 with an empty chamber, but only when the situation seems that potential threats may begin further away. Like camping. The 229 is quite a bit heavier and has fewer rounds in the magazine, making it less desirable for ccw, but it is the one I feel more comfortable carrying, especially around my grandkids.

What we need is some solid diagnosis of what caused the discharges in specific instances. The pistols' parts need to be accurately measured, with wear, any damage or manufacturing errors noted. Potential user errors identified. So far the unofficial analyses indicate wrong and damaged parts plus user error are needed. A top notch lab needs to do the analysis.

I was a bit uneasy about getting a striker fired ccw pistol but relied on Sig's reputation. I had an XD40 previously but didn't use it for ccw, and the ex got it in the divorce.

quote:

fewer rounds in the magazine

eh? 2 extra rounds. get a larger mag or a floor plate extension.

It is still crazy to me that Sig released a design without the "traditional" at this point, drop safety on the trigger and firing pin block upstream on the striker channel. With a functioning firing pin block, there wouldn't be any unintentional discharges as long as the trigger wasn't pulled.

I've been out of the loop, but are the military models with the thumb safety still using the original striker/sear designs without the lightening cuts? Does the thumb safety on these pistols ONLY block the trigger, or does it engage or disengage with the sear as well? Have there been any reports of a discharge with the safety ON?

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Is it common for military personnel to put loaded firearms on a desk pointed at their chests?

There’s a point where a properly functioning, loaded firearm, in a proper holster should be considered inert. Otherwise, one couldn’t carry and function in day to day activity.

If I’m climbing a ladder, my holstered gun is aimed at my partners head going up the same ladder behind me. If I go prone with a holstered gun, it’s pointed at everyone behind me.

If I take it off my belt and lay it down horizontally, it’s pointed somewhere in 360 degrees. In my car’s trunk, it may be pointed at the gas tank. Or, at the back seat.

So for our military folks, does that memorandum apply to the entire USAF or just that one particular unit (Global Strike Command), and if so what percentage of total Air Force personnel does that unit represent?

quote:

Originally posted by Jester814:
I've gone from being skeptical of the 320 discharges, thinking it was just "glock leg" of the 2020s, to thinking people were just NDing or getting stuff snagged in them at an alarming rate, to now unloading all my 320s and putting them away.

Good call.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
So for our military folks, does that memorandum apply to the entire USAF or just that one particular unit (Global Strike Command), and if so what percentage of total Air Force personnel does that unit represent?

That is specific to that one command (for the time being), as that commanding general doesn't have the authority to issue a branch-wide order. He can only do so for his command.

It's one of the nine major commands comprising the Air Force, and includes about 31k airmen, or around 10% of the Air Force.

Thanks Rogue. I'm going to have to share this with the boss on Friday, and wanted to be sure to have the proper context.

I'm getting really tired of being the doom goblin all the time about the stupid guns.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

...It's one of the nine major commands comprising the Air Force, and includes about 31k airmen, or around 10% of the Air Force.

But doesn't Global Strike Command have a huge number of Security Forces who guard remote missile sites?

We no longer have nuclear armed bombers on alert (although Whiteman B-2s may be in a higher state of readiness), so I think the bomber bases have fewer SF.

quote:

Originally posted by balance:
It is still crazy to me that Sig released a design without the "traditional" at this point, drop safety on the trigger and firing pin block upstream on the striker channel. With a functioning firing pin block, there wouldn't be any unintentional discharges as long as the trigger wasn't pulled.

I've been out of the loop, but are the military models with the thumb safety still using the original striker/sear designs without the lightening cuts? Does the thumb safety on these pistols ONLY block the trigger, or does it engage or disengage with the sear as well? Have there been any reports of a discharge with the safety ON?

I don’t know for sure if the military pistols are post-upgrade or not. I do know that the manual safety on a P320 has always only blocked the trigger bar. If it blocked the sear as well, we’d be able to definitively point to the striker block safety as the culprit for all of these weird UDs.

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:

quote:

Originally posted by balance:
It is still crazy to me that Sig released a design without the "traditional" at this point, drop safety on the trigger and firing pin block upstream on the striker channel. With a functioning firing pin block, there wouldn't be any unintentional discharges as long as the trigger wasn't pulled.

I've been out of the loop, but are the military models with the thumb safety still using the original striker/sear designs without the lightening cuts? Does the thumb safety on these pistols ONLY block the trigger, or does it engage or disengage with the sear as well? Have there been any reports of a discharge with the safety ON?

I don’t know for sure if the military pistols are post-upgrade or not. I do know that the manual safety on a P320 has always only blocked the trigger bar. If it blocked the sear as well, we’d be able to definitively point to the striker block safety as the culprit for all of these weird UDs.

If the thumb safety only blocks the trigger/trigger bar, then it effectively acts as a "trigger safety", or drop safety, which is the only purpose of the "lever-in-trigger" design of most polymer pistols. I'm curious if any of the UD's of these pistols happened with the safety on.

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:
I don’t know for sure if the military pistols are post-upgrade or not. I do know that the manual safety on a P320 has always only blocked the trigger bar. If it blocked the sear as well, we’d be able to definitively point to the striker block safety as the culprit for all of these weird UDs.

The SIG P320's drop-safe issue was discovered in 2017, during testing by the U.S. Military during the M17 Pistol Trials. The 'upgrade' was baked in by the time SIG got the contract, so all M17 Pistols delivered to the U.S. Military are technically 'post-upgrade' by design.

^^^Ah, that’s good to know. Thanks for the clarification.

Just go an e-mail from Gunsite Academy that they are no longer allowing the 320.

Liability, and not reality, is what's going to kill the P320.

quote:

Originally posted by newtoSig765:
Just go an e-mail from Gunsite Academy that they are no longer allowing the 320.

Until there is some DEFINITIVE why this happening that exonerates the gun then I can see any ranges/instructors/insurance being leery about these. It just seems prudent at this point.

As an aside SIG has totally lost me as a customer. Range where I shoot has had numerous P365 failures and the whole 320 debacle not to mention to constant introductions and cancellations, SIG has strayed so far off the reservation that I remember that I don’t recognize it. Cohen is a blight on the quality of everything he touches. I find the whole thing sad.