"So, really, most Xguns have the newer internal extractor that has been problem free."

I can say from personal experience that's simply not true at least with respect to what I think of as the original X-5s. That is if you shoot them very much. And sig worked on mine a half a dozen times and it really didn't fix it.

So for me if we have a gun with a reliable extractor, and optic mounting I'm in. Hopefully a plate to mount some optic that's reasonable is coming from the aftermarket.

quote:

Originally posted by NMDave:
The best of times and the worst of times…

I have wanted an X5 for a few years. I have been cutting back on toys and even sold some toys so I could get one. I finally have a decent enough budget to afford a solid used one and now this. What I have set aside for 226 X5 will easily cover the cost of the US version (I found them listed from $2,200 - $2,360).

I feel like I still want an OG model built and tuned by hand in the Germany Mastershop but… are they worth twice the price? I don’t see how.

Now I am wondering if the current market value on the existing X5s are going to tank. The current market is obviously driven by supply and demand and the supply is about to skyrocket. I know there is inherit value in the classics but now I am afraid if I spend $3,000 on a solid used X5 it will be worth half that this time next year. Then again, a new US version at $2,300 may be worth half that after a couple of trips to the range.

I know, I know… buying guns at retail is not “investing”. My collection is my hobby as every gun I have gets used and enjoyed. I just don’t want to buy now and regret later.

People that bought "high" would have to have a reason to sell them "low" for the prices to drop. I'm willing to bet that the personal financial volatility of the people spending 3k for a X5E is much much lower than average $500-$800 gun buyer. Q brings up that the P210's haven't suffered from the P210A's and that's in my opinion a good reference point.

I think the bigger issue is the delta from X5E to X5A as I'm going to start calling these isn't nearly as big as it was from the P210 Legends to the P210A's. Even using crazy 2022 inflation numbers it's $700-ish savings from what a inflated up 2014 X5E would run. Back it up to just 2021 when this was most likely given the green light then it's more like $490. There is a big difference of a $2100 gun now being a $1200 gun than a $2600? gun now being a $2200 gun.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
"So, really, most Xguns have the newer internal extractor that has been problem free."

I can say from personal experience that's simply not true at least with respect to what I think of as the original X-5s. That is if you shoot them very much. And sig worked on mine a half a dozen times and it really didn't fix it...

Not sure what's not not true about what I said, if you go back and read carefully and quote the whole post. And, btw, most does not equal all.

What is the difference between classic and STAS?

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
What is the difference between classic and STAS?

Classic: wood grips, regular TDL, regular mag release, solid trigger.

STAS: G10 grips, sport TDL, extended mag release, skeleton trigger.

I just based them on the available pics.

Thank you.

"most Xguns have the newer internal extractor that has been problem free"
OK I'll quote the original post. I do note the word most and also note the phrase problem free.
There is of course the issue of sample size which is what I suppose you are bringing up. But when I was shooting the original X5 seriously in competition it wasn't one that had the problem. I have 5 of them. Eventually they all had the issue. And all of them went to sig multiple times. And eventually they all had the issue again. rinse and repeat. many times. There was no fix that worked under a diet of competitive round counts. Note the production lot size is important here and thats more in your area of expertise. If they made a couple of million then my experience is just a statistical dot. But I'm guessing the numbers were way less than that and my experience is not an outlier. I have no idea where you might get the idea they are problem free as I've no idea where such information might be acquired?
But this is in the end just my personal experience. My original X-5's are all since retired and sitting in my safe wondering what might happen to them next without a source of replacement extractors. As is the mastershop idea of an optic mount gun (separate discussion).
So I'm pretty happy with this new gun if they get the trigger right and the optic mounting situation works for something that is competitive.

What’s old is new again. Glad to see manufacturers like Walther and SIG making metal framed guns again that aren’t 1911s. Does anyone think S&W will start making metal framed semi-autos again that aren’t based off the M&P? A new 4th gen semi-auto would be great.

My X-Five Tactical that I bought used came with the problematic extractor. To date it hasn't developed any problems but not knowing jyst how many rounds have been put through the gun besides those that were my own, I've long felt that it's been living on borrowed time. Meant to pick up Bruce Gray's aftermarket extractor when Gray Guns was making them, but as usual somewhere along the line the rest of life got in the way and I plum forgot.

The new guns look pretty good; I could almost excuse the fugly extractor if I didn't strongly suspect that it's likely a MIM part just like on regular US P226s. MIM doesn't belong on a $2200 pistol.

I just wish they would've cut the rear sight into the slide instead of that ugly ass plate. Optics cuts are great if you want one, but an eyesore for those of us that don't.

My eyes just make rds into a starburst so I have never grown to be a fan. Everything I own that would be wearing a rds in someone else's collection is either irons or magnified optic in mine for that reason.

quote:

Originally posted by wolfe 21:
I just wish they would've cut the rear sight into the slide instead of that ugly ass plate. Optics cuts are great if you want one, but an eyesore for those of us that don't.

My eyes just make rds into a starburst so I have never grown to be a fan. Everything I own that would be wearing a rds in someone else's collection is either irons or magnified optic in mine for that reason.

I agree on the optic cut. It just seems the market is driving manufacturers to include it on most new production… especially the more popular models. I like P250UA5’s idea about a black finish on the slide. Would blend in with extractor and the optic cut cover. I am thinking IF I “pull the trigger” on one, I bet CCR’s Dusk on the slide would really complete the gun from an aesthetic point… Maybe someone with better computer skills than I have could photoshop the slide black just to get an idea of the look.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
Looks fantastic, and I'm with Jones, DA/SA please.
But, it'll be out of my reasonable budget, so I'll just have to live vicariously through those that have/post them.

Extractor would be a bit less 'unsightly' with the slide finished in black.

My feeble attempt at a rendering with a black slide.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NMDave,

quote:

Originally posted by NMDave:

My feeble attempt at a rendering with a black slide.

The reverse two-tone look is always my favorite. This one is a FrankenX I made by mating the X5 Open frame with the X6 Black Skeleton upper.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
<<SNIP>>

Simple questions: Which extractors do your original X5s have? Are they the problematic ones that Bruce was working on replacing?

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by NMDave:

My feeble attempt at a rendering with a black slide.

The reverse two-tone look is always my favorite. This one is a FrankenX I made by mating the X5 Open frame with the X6 Black Skeleton upper.

Now that is sharp! Is the slide’s black finish a factory one or??? I just sent an email to Mary asking her opinion on Cera-Platting the slide in her Dusk finish. If you have had Dusk applied to anything, how does it compare to the finish on the example in your picture?

While I get it and agree the “Classic” indeed should be stainless over stainless with walnut grips, IMO they should have made the STAS (whatever that acronym means) with a black slide.

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
My X-Five Tactical that I bought used came with the problematic extractor. To date it hasn't developed any problems but not knowing jyst how many rounds have been put through the gun besides those that were my own, I've long felt that it's been living on borrowed time. <snip>

Re: “To date it hasn't developed any problems but not knowing jyst how many rounds have been put through the gun besides those that were my own, I've long felt that it's been living on borrowed time.”

I don’t think that you have to worry about “living on borrowed time” as far as the extractor is concerned. Here’s why I say that. My bought-new 9mm SIG P226 X5 Comp has the “improved” SIG extractor. It suffered several FTEs over the first 250 or so rounds. But NONE since, with several thousand rounds through it. In my case, at least, use made the extraction operation more reliable, not less.

The reason that extractor has been a bit problematic: it’s positioned slightly below the cartridge center, where the case rim is beginning to curve away. More of a problem with 9mm than the fatter .40 S&W. The claw of the GGI extractor rises 0.025 inches higher for a more secure rim grip. But the slide has to be milled a bit to accommodate that rise.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:

...Now, get rid of the damn rail as a target pistol doesn't need one. Also, I would prefer Sig make it with a 4.4" barrel/slide assembly so it mirrors the balance of the ST models... basically, make the X5 Short & Smart model.

I agree, and in nitron please.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by austintx:
Do you happen to know when the switch to the redesigned extractor was made?

Don't know exactly when, but the earliest Gen 1 Xgun I used to own was a 2011 proofed gun, and it had the redesigned extractor.

Being very new to the X series (just purchased my first one in all around a few months back) I have a couple of questions. First trip to the range with my 2008 all around, I had several FTE the spent brass. I stoped, field stripped it, shot some cleaner/dry lube on and around the extractor. With that done, was able to rapid fire 2 full mags (38 rounds) with ZERO issues. At home, I tore it down to the bones and cleaned every part, piece, and surface followed by a thorough lubrication. Second trip to the rage had NO issues at all. My thought was the time spent in Mario’s safe had simply caused som minor seizing that resolved with a good clean and lube session. Now I am wondering if I need to find someone to upgrade with a new extractor as designed by Bruce.

Thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by NMDave:
Now that is sharp! Is the slide’s black finish a factory one or??? I just sent an email to Mary asking her opinion on Cera-Platting the slide in her Dusk finish. If you have had Dusk applied to anything, how does it compare to the finish on the example in your picture?

While I get it and agree the “Classic” indeed should be stainless over stainless with walnut grips, IMO they should have made the STAS (whatever that acronym means) with a black slide.

That upper assembly is all factory black, bought from MMBI.

STAS = STainless Adjustable Sight. I know, makes little sense, since the Classic has the same thing, but that's their nomenclature. How I know this? When I had their LDCs, the white one was STAS, and the black one was BAS. If they make a new Xgun with the blackened slide, they probably will call it RTAS.

quote:

Originally posted by NMDave:
Being very new to the X series (just purchased my first one in all around a few months back) I have a couple of questions. First trip to the range with my 2008 all around, I had several FTE the spent brass. I stoped, field stripped it, shot some cleaner/dry lube on and around the extractor. With that done, was able to rapid fire 2 full mags (38 rounds) with ZERO issues. At home, I tore it down to the bones and cleaned every part, piece, and surface followed by a thorough lubrication. Second trip to the rage had NO issues at all. My thought was the time spent in Mario’s safe had simply caused som minor seizing that resolved with a good clean and lube session. Now I am wondering if I need to find someone to upgrade with a new extractor as designed by Bruce.

Thoughts?

Sounds like the issue is not the extractor itself but lack of maintenance, and it appears that you solved it. Fwiw, even with the old/original extractor that supposedly is so problematic, not everyone who owns Xguns so equipped has issues. So, if it doesn't give you any more problems, why worry?

Here are pics of the Xgun extractors, from original to redesigned. The first pic is internet grab, and that extractor is the original one that many folks had issues with, and that Bruce worked on fixing.

---

The rest of the pics are mine and show the redesigned extractor from factory. I have yet to see anyone showing widespread failure with the redesigned one.

Redesigned extractor in a Gen 1 Xgun (L1)



Redesigned extractor in a Gen 2 Xgun (2018 Skeleton)



Redesigned extractor in a Gen 2 Xgun (2019 Facettes)

Thanks for the schooling! You just confirmed what I was thinking… Love it, shoot it, keep it pristine inside and out, and just keep an eye on performance. IF it starts acting up again, worry about it then.

My spies have confirmed that a DA/SA gun is in the works!