So this was a bad idea to begin with and not they stop. Wow.

quote:

Originally posted by Angus the Kid:

I think your counterpoint proves the point. Cars were more convenient than horses. Self driving cars will be more convenient than conventional cars.


Like ALL technology, the prices will fall, fall, fall. I am old enough to remember when the first VCR's cost $1,000


The networks will be built.


The cat is already out of the bag. If your worried about advertisement privacy in particular, your several years too late.


Does the gov'ment really care about a woman and her back door man? This technology is coming with or without you.

More convenient for whom? Certainly the government. But me? I doubt it. I can drive at a speed (albeit, outside of the bounds of the law), that is conducive to getting me to a place at a given time. If I am late, I can speed up. If I change my mind mid trip on where I want to go, all I have to do is go. No need to look up an address, re-input and wait for the annoying RECALCULATING Kid about to throw up in the back seat? I can pull over without needing a computer to approve my actions. See a spectacular sunset and want to get a photo, I just pull over and snap my picture, get back in the car and take back off. Let's see how you handle that situation with KITT.

Tell me that the price is going to fall, fall, fall.....Adjusting for inflation, show me a car that has all the technology gadgetry in it that is the same price (or similar) as a car from say 1995? Never gonna happen. There are millions of newer Toyota Camry's out there and they are all more expensive than their 1990's equivalents. Why? Added safety features, ECU's, infotainment integration, etc. So go ahead and tell me again how we are all going to afford these self driving cars with cheaper technology.

Who is gonna foot the bill for all of these networks to be built? Is everyone gonna get their share of the bill? Is a town with population of 500 gonna have the same access to funding that a city of 5 million has? Who is gonna maintain it? Ain't but one way I see that working = more taxes. Sounds great, sign me right up

Tell me how you handle motorcycles too. Haven't seen a good explanation of how to integrate them. And bicycles. And joggers. You see, there are more than just cars on our streets and you can't control everything with a fucking microchip

As to the privacy issue: Why is everyone so willing to give their privacy up? Too many people can get too much information way too easily! Just go ahead and let them in your bedroom too if you want....Not for me, no thanks!

I'll bet a shiny new nickel that the information gathered from these vehicles would be admissible as evidence against a person once a subpoena was granted. We've seen how the government handled cell phones, so why would your expectations regarding these cars be different?

This is all the equivalent of the left trying to paint us gun owners as regressive. We are unaccepting of "THE NEW ERA". Nobody needs a gun because if nobody had a gun, everyone would be safe(r). See, it's all for the chillrens....yada, yada, bullshit. Sure, there will be advancements in technology and that's cool if you are a techie. But not everyone is into giving up control of their lives to someone or something else.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Selfdriving cars are about one thing. Control.

It's just another element to try a take more control away from the ordinary citizen. Once again it is part of the commie creed to "give me more power, and I promise to give you safety."

You all can shove your autonomous cars right up your crack. I won't give up my freedom, not a single bit of it, for some false notion of making me safer. Jesus.

This right here.

well, Elaine Herzberg is much safer now

she's dead

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Selfdriving cars are about one thing. Control.

It's just another element to try a take more control away from the ordinary citizen. Once again it is part of the commie creed to "give me more power, and I promise to give you safety."

You all can shove your autonomous cars right up your crack. I won't give up my freedom, not a single bit of it, for some false notion of making me safer. Jesus.

Nobody here is asking you to give up any freedom. I love driving and doubt I’ll ever get a self driving car. Automatic door locks are too high tech for me. My manual transmission 98 GMC doesn’t have them. It doesn’t have A/C either.

I’m not a communist for recognizing that self driving vehicles may have real value. I’d rather a well programmed computer drive a car then a drunk guy or some chick applying her makeup and I think computers are going to get to that point pretty soon.

And self driving cars aren’t about control. They are about money. The car that hit this lady was an Uber not a CIA van. Uber doesn’t give a shit about controlling you. They want to stop paying drivers. A private company funding research in order to turn a higher profit? Well shit man, I don’t know what you think the definition of communism is but I don’t think that’s it.

Look you don’t like the idea. Awesome. But can you have the discussion without calling anyone who disagrees with you a communist?

And on a personal note you seem kinda tightly wound lately. I was dealing with some personal shit so I was MIA around here most of last year but since I’ve been back you seem to be a lot more angry. And I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but other people have commented on it too. Everything cool?

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Are saying his felony status was causative, contributory or coincidental to the accident?

Pick one but be careful on how you answer. Anything besides coincidental will require some proof or evidence to support your answer.

No, I'm saying that using felons is probably not the best choice for a highly scrutinized testing program such as this. Surely they could have found a less "tainted" group of drivers, particularly when many states won't allow felons to engage in ride-sharing work. Just poor judgement.

This line particularly caught my attention:

"Uber was hit with a $9.8 million fine in November 2017 by the Colorado Public Utilities Commission after investigators determined the company hired nearly 60 drivers with previous felony convictions, The Denver Post reported at the time. "

So I guess Colorado would rather have felons robbing citizens and selling drugs then having jobs and getting their shit together.

In 50 years only a small percentage of the population will own a car or know how to drive one.

Self driving, on demand transportation will be sufficient for a large majority of the population, especially in urban areas. Why buy a car and pay that expense when that is available? No more MX, parking, or insurance costs.

Sure rural areas will continue to have cars but it’s only a matter of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
A top of the hour radio news break reported that the pedestrian who was killed was walking outside a cross walk.

In Oregon that argument would float like an anvil.

tac

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by Angus the Kid:

I think your counterpoint proves the point. Cars were more convenient than horses. Self driving cars will be more convenient than conventional cars.


Like ALL technology, the prices will fall, fall, fall. I am old enough to remember when the first VCR's cost $1,000


The networks will be built.


The cat is already out of the bag. If your worried about advertisement privacy in particular, your several years too late.


Does the gov'ment really care about a woman and her back door man? This technology is coming with or without you.

More convenient for whom? Certainly the government. But me? I doubt it. I can drive at a speed (albeit, outside of the bounds of the law), that is conducive to getting me to a place at a given time. If I am late, I can speed up. If I change my mind mid trip on where I want to go, all I have to do is go. No need to look up an address, re-input and wait for the annoying RECALCULATING Kid about to throw up in the back seat? I can pull over without needing a computer to approve my actions. See a spectacular sunset and want to get a photo, I just pull over and snap my picture, get back in the car and take back off. Let's see how you handle that situation with KITT.

Tell me that the price is going to fall, fall, fall.....Adjusting for inflation, show me a car that has all the technology gadgetry in it that is the same price (or similar) as a car from say 1995? Never gonna happen. There are millions of newer Toyota Camry's out there and they are all more expensive than their 1990's equivalents. Why? Added safety features, ECU's, infotainment integration, etc. So go ahead and tell me again how we are all going to afford these self driving cars with cheaper technology.

Who is gonna foot the bill for all of these networks to be built? Is everyone gonna get their share of the bill? Is a town with population of 500 gonna have the same access to funding that a city of 5 million has? Who is gonna maintain it? Ain't but one way I see that working = more taxes. Sounds great, sign me right up

Tell me how you handle motorcycles too. Haven't seen a good explanation of how to integrate them. And bicycles. And joggers. You see, there are more than just cars on our streets and you can't control everything with a fucking microchip

As to the privacy issue: Why is everyone so willing to give their privacy up? Too many people can get too much information way too easily! Just go ahead and let them in your bedroom too if you want....Not for me, no thanks!

I'll bet a shiny new nickel that the information gathered from these vehicles would be admissible as evidence against a person once a subpoena was granted. We've seen how the government handled cell phones, so why would your expectations regarding these cars be different?

This is all the equivalent of the left trying to paint us gun owners as regressive. We are unaccepting of "THE NEW ERA". Nobody needs a gun because if nobody had a gun, everyone would be safe(r). See, it's all for the chillrens....yada, yada, bullshit. Sure, there will be advancements in technology and that's cool if you are a techie. But not everyone is into giving up control of their lives to someone or something else.

I'm not sure you understand how these vehicles work. There is no "network" required. They sense their environment and go from A to B. They even can find their own parking spot.

As for cost, they are projecting it to be about 10% of the cost of current car ownership.

Rhinowso hit the nail on the head. Car ownership will drop dramatically. this is why the major car companies are starting their own version of Uber.

Essentially, you grab your phone, open the app, request a car to pick you up and it will be there in a couple minutes. That's how they see us getting around in the near future.

For a family like mine, that would be a perfect opportunity to go to one car. I can "auto-uber" back and forth to work and to meetings. My wife can use the family car for hauling kids around and road trips. we don't need two with autonomous cabs.

They are predicting suburbs of homes without garages as a result of this. Think I'm nuts? Look at what the major auto makers are doing...they see this coming too.

as for all of the privacy/freedom/etc talk. I don't know what to say guys. I find it ironic as hell that these arguments are bing made on the internet.

This is the least of our privacy concerns.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

Essentially, you grab your phone, open the app, request a car to pick you up and it will be there in a couple minutes. That's how they see us getting around in the near future.

I'd sooner set my nuts on fire than have to live in a world like that.

This vision of yours will be the death of the American soul if it ever comes to pass.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

Essentially, you grab your phone, open the app, request a car to pick you up and it will be there in a couple minutes. That's how they see us getting around in the near future.

I'd sooner set my nuts on fire than have to live in a world like that.

This vision of yours will be the death of the American soul if it ever comes to pass.

It's not my vision. It's what the market is anticipating.

I think your statement is overdramatic. I look forward to this and think it will grant me a lot more freedom than I currently have now.

I think it will be far more efficient for my entire family.

People just freak out at new things. It's likely impossible to count the times folks have made a statement just like yours when something new came out.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

Essentially, you grab your phone, open the app, request a car to pick you up and it will be there in a couple minutes. That's how they see us getting around in the near future.

I'd sooner set my nuts on fire than have to live in a world like that.

This vision of yours will be the death of the American soul if it ever comes to pass.

Lol, you still sending messages via smoke signals while you dry skins and mine saltpeter?

LMFAO.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
as for all of the privacy/freedom/etc talk. I don't know what to say guys. I find it ironic as hell that these arguments are bing made on the internet.

This is the least of our privacy concerns.

Spot on.

Oh, you're free since you have a car.

Never mind your cellphone / credit cards can be tracked as your drive around / fill up with gas.

Never mind License Plate readers all over, autonomously tracking your vehicle.

Never mind TEOTWAWKI talk on easily tracked internet forums / IP addresses.

I need to buy stock in tinfoil, apparently.

And yes, I like driving. But I see the future and utility of not having to drive myself everywhere nor have a car around that sees little use, but I still need it for those few times I do.

In fact I just sold my personal car, because between the wife, son, and family on the property I have access to 4 other vehicles and on a long work trip, I'll just rent one if I need it longer.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

Tell me that the price is going to fall, fall, fall.....Adjusting for inflation, show me a car that has all the technology gadgetry in it that is the same price (or similar) as a car from say 1995? Never gonna happen. There are millions of newer Toyota Camry's out there and they are all more expensive than their 1990's equivalents. Why? Added safety features, ECU's, infotainment integration, etc. So go ahead and tell me again how we are all going to afford these self driving cars with cheaper technology.

I’ll tell you the price is going to fall.

1995 Toyota Camry 4dr MSRP - $16,418 (manual)

2018 Toyota Camry 4dr MSRP - $25,823 (auto)

That $16,418 in 1995 is now $27,037...

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
And yes, I like driving. But I see the future and utility of not having to drive myself everywhere nor have a car around that sees little use, but I still need it for those few times I do.

In fact I just sold my personal car, because between the wife, son, and family on the property I have access to 4 other vehicles and on a long work trip, I'll just rent one if I need it longer.

What happens if the call-a-car service will not transport what you want to transport or take you where you want to go?

[setting aside the fact that you have your own car, for now], if E.S. Dunbar's visions of entire tracts of homes w/o garages or parking comes to fruition: what if you are a gun owner but these call-a-car services will not stop at gun ranges/stores or transport even privately owned firearms?

Such a combination of factors would eventually mean cities would be virtual gun-free zones simply because owning and transporting such items would be unduly burdensome.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility. Youtube is cutting channels that host certain firearm content, and they can because they are a private service provider, and gun-owners are not a constitutionally protected class. The fact is, these services are providing privately owned vehicles. They will be well withing their rights to proscribe certain conduct, destinations, and cargo.

How many people will keep a personally owned vehicle just so they can go to the gunshop and range?

I'm not saying that corporately owned self-driving vehicles will never happen. I think it's too late to put that genie back in the bottle. But it won't necessarily be a good thing--maybe what we're actually giving up isn't just privacy, it's autonomy. I find the later prospect encompasses the former and is a much more frightening possibility.

I'm not discounting the challenges and never said that personally owned / driven cars would go extinct.

You bring up valid points but I'm not going to light my nuts on fire in protest. I believe that were there is a demand for services, there will be a service provider - So youtube tells Gun owners to fuck off, I believe there will be a service provider who will host that content. Same with future car services.

And a benefit of this is the anti-gunners are scurrying out into the daylight for the first time in awhile - at least with much more openness and clarity. Believe it or not, I see that as a GOOD thing. It allows us to expose them for the frauds they are, be it on Youtube or self driving car companies.

Relax, it's inevitable, everyone here that is for the project keeps telling us that we're out of touch, old and insignificant, get with it old man, they've decided that's the way it will be, no discussion or they'll shout you down and besmirch your opinion by denegrating those that think differently, you know, like liberals on guns....

Car companies looked at turbine engines at one time as the power plant of the future, we were told by those that know, it's coming. Never happened.

Electric cars are the future, no explosions, easy to start, no fuel to carry, no emissions, it's the urban way to commute, nope didn't happen, that btw was in the late 1800's when electric cars were the rage, now it's just trendy, remember, Teslas are all powered by Coal, mostly Mexican coal...

LDD is spot on, private livery combined with social justice warrior platforms, will we need a Rhino Pickup or a Burro D Transport company, perhaps they won't even take a registered R to an election location if the company is a progressive company (yeah I know rules, there will be rules) on top of anti gun, anti white, anti religion. Who knows.

How about availability, say you live in a town with a University, you want to go to the range, have a burger and shop, but the allocated available functioning vehicles are not sufficient to make your request for say, 4 hours until after the GA-FL game is over.

Will we be allocated availability points, who gets the car that's left when two folks or more select it, who waits, who never gets picked up. Maybe we'll accumulate some SJW points as good citizens of the ward, after the Mayor, a few judges, top employers, etc etc, you'll get your car. Its possible.

There is the real issue of younger buyers not coming to the brands, Harley feels it, but also so do all the auto manufacturing companies, the youth of today don't want drivers licenses like we did, they prefer to be ferried around without having the hassle of driving, my neighbors son didn't get his license until he was 21.

In Japan, (facts from top gear) car sales in the large cities are down 40%, partly because you can't park, drive, get a permit or buy a car with more than 40 HP that doesn't look like a toaster.

50 years? I'll be in a rocker on the front porch with my great great great grand kids telling them how I used to ride a big loud powerful motorcycle with the freedom to leave when I wanted, go where I wanted, travel with or without anyone and my whereabouts were not recorded into a marketing database by the Big Three (Now tech firms) and watch their eyes bug out since they live in RhinoDunbarland... LOL

So Americans are going to give up another freedom for what, uber.... We're sicker as a country than I originally thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Are saying his felony status was causative, contributory or coincidental to the accident?

Pick one but be careful on how you answer. Anything besides coincidental will require some proof or evidence to support your answer.

No, I'm saying that using felons is probably not the best choice for a highly scrutinized testing program such as this. Surely they could have found a less "tainted" group of drivers, particularly when many states won't allow felons to engage in ride-sharing work. Just poor judgement.

This line particularly caught my attention:

"Uber was hit with a $9.8 million fine in November 2017 by the Colorado Public Utilities Commission after investigators determined the company hired nearly 60 drivers with previous felony convictions, The Denver Post reported at the time. "

So I guess Colorado would rather have felons robbing citizens and selling drugs then having jobs and getting their shit together.

That's a bit of a false dilemma - either robbing folks and selling drugs or working as an UBER driver, but I get your point. I can also see how government might mandate that UBER not hire felons for driving positions that might put the public at an increased risk, especially in a sensitive position such as a test driver. I'm not trying to beat up on ex-convicts trying to work their way back to being productive members of society, but I can see the prudence in the scrutiny here and I imagine UBER's customers might prefer and appreciate the added attempt at safety. According to the Post article, LYFT was also investigated and apparently didn't have any felons in their workforce.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

Essentially, you grab your phone, open the app, request a car to pick you up and it will be there in a couple minutes. That's how they see us getting around in the near future.

I'd sooner set my nuts on fire than have to live in a world like that.

This vision of yours will be the death of the American soul if it ever comes to pass.

Lol, you still sending messages via smoke signals while you dry skins and mine saltpeter?

LMFAO.

I think that's a pretty weak comparison to make between cell phone technology and how we communicate today with what we're discussing in this thread...or at least what I'm fervently (or yes, dramatically) pushing back at. And that is the idea that personal car ownership will all but be extinct, except of course for the extremely wealthy and privileged since owning a car would be cost prohibitive for us regular, lowly citizens as some here seem giddy about and can't wait for.

I think back to high school on those nights where it was just me, my thoughts, a full tank of gas, and my 1971 Pontiac T-37. There were some nights that I just drove around for hours or just parked at the boardwalk and watched the ocean while listening to the radio. I feel sorry for the generations who will never know that incredible feeling of freedom.

Well I never said it would be cost prohibitive, but that it just wont make financial sense for lots of people to own cars. I reached that conclusion simply by looking at the number of adults and cars on our property, coupled with how much I do / do not drive these days. It had nothing to do with any technology.

Just like you accept the transformation of communication technology and all the goods & bads with it, many will accept the transformation of travel technology.

While I haven't driven in a completely self driving car, I have used some with assistive driving - ie, radar cruise control to drive a speed yet keep a specific distance from the car ahead of you and also give warnings / steering assistance to stay between the lines. It took a little while to get used to the systems, but I'll say I can drive a lot further / longer with those systems in a car than without. It's just easier to drive, much like it's easier for airline pilots today to fly, since the plane is on autopilot for 95% of the flight.

Of course it could be the boogyman trying to secretly enslave us all and track our whereabouts (if you think they couldn't already know).