quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
Companies do not exist to fight political battles. They exist to make money. This especially true if it isn't THEIR political battle. Fighting the mandate would likely be exponentially more expensive and risky than complying with it. Not to mention that some companies likely agree with the mandate as a way of minimizing their downtime do to Covid infections.

Yes, companies exist to make money.
But Steve Hornady is not just the owner of a company. He's also a man. The fight for individual liberty is a fight of men. It's been going on for as long as we have walked this planet. What made America great was that we had created a form of limited government where individual freedom allowed all men to thrive. We are slowly letting individual liberty slip away. The government exists to protect my liberty, not to provide me with goods and services or even to keep me 'safe'. We are slowly (quickly?) letting that slip away.
It is his fight.

quote:

As we know, there is a cadre of people who are militantly opposed to the vaccine mandates, apparently you included. It's not all people. I kind of doubt its even a majority.

Yes, I am militantly opposed to the vaccine mandates. If you want to take the vaccine, that is your choice. But this isn’t about whether or not you like the vaccine. We should all be united on individual liberty. It’s a personal decision and none of any company’s business.

I am surprised that these Draconian Mandates (law suits) have not been fast tracked to the Supreme Court?

I would be curious as to what the revenue split at Hornady is between what is sold to the government vs. what is sold into the consumer market. (same thing for margin/EBIT)

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I am surprised that these Draconian Mandates (law suits) have not been fast tracked to the Supreme Court?

Been rejected 3 times, each one by a Justice overseeing their region. Once by Barrett (Indiana University students challenge), once by Sotomayor (NYC public school teachers challenge), and the latest one by Breyer (Maine healthcare workers challenge). Barrett...

https://www.reuters.com/world/...-mandate-2021-10-19/

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I am surprised that these Draconian Mandates (law suits) have not been fast tracked to the Supreme Court?

Been rejected 3 times, each one by a Justice overseeing their region. Once by Barrett (Indiana University students challenge), once by Sotomayor (NYC public school teachers challenge), and the latest one by Breyer (Maine healthcare workers challenge). Barrett...

https://www.reuters.com/world/...-mandate-2021-10-19/

Well shit.

I do agree that companies all over are beginning to panic and are pushing this IN ADVANCE of what Biden is threatening to do with OSHA but yet hasnt done anything but make threats.

Maybe that was the goal all along, scare businesses just enough to do the government's dirty work for them.

My BIL just told me his company, an IT sales type company just announced a mandate, to get the vaccine by a certain date or be fired.

WTF

BTW, he had a pretty good case of Covid last winter and recovered, early 30's. He doesn't think he should be forced into getting this vaccine because he's already got the natural antibodies. AND he works 100% remote and always has with this job...

Mark Levin podcast from 10/19/2021 covers Vaccine Mandate Legality.

Mark Levin Podcast.

It's only his fight if he chooses to fight it. That's his prerogative. If you don't want to buy his stuff because he isn't in your camp, that's your prerogative.

But, as I said before, if you take that position, I have feeling you'll be buying close to nothing, because, for the reasons I stated previously, the vast majority of companies are likely to play ball. The only thing that will stop that is if the courts shoot it down (which is possible.)

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

<snippng lots>

It is his fight.

quote:

Originally posted by darkest2000:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Wow. What a coward.

Yup, be a coward all you want, but don't tell any of your employees there is nothing they can do avoid this bullshit.

So what can you do to avoid this? Shut down the company, lay off people so they're under 100?

Follow The Constitution of the United States and its Amendments; specifically Amendments 1, 4, 9, and 14.

Follow the SCOTUS decision Marbury v Madison (1803)

Follow SCOTUS decision Roe v Wade which cements our rights under the 4th and 9th Amendments... i.e. our bodies are our own property, and we have a right to privacy regarding our body and medical information.

And finally one can file a criminal complaint against one who signs disciplinary or termination paperwork under 18 USC Section 242 "Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law".

Or one can get a falsified shot card and turn that in... forged papers saved thousands upon thousands of Jews in the 1930s and 1940s.

I also have received many "umbrella" emails stating as an employee of the US Army Corps that I have until x date to get this shot, y date to get that shot, or z date to get the third shot option. Also we have received emails stating we have until 18 October 2021 to submit "exception" paperwork (this is the word used in the emails), and not "Exemption" paperwork, but said paperwork will be excepted after that date indefinitely.

We also have been told that the Army Corps doesn't know how they are going to implement the policy.

I am ignoring all of this until I get a document that specifically names me, and then I will take action (s)

Heck, I have 5.5 years until I hit 57 which is my minimum retirement age (I already have enough years of service), but I will not be sticking this substance in my body just like I don't allow flu shots to be put in me. Besides, they don't require booster shots for the flu vaccine....

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
It's only his fight if he chooses to fight it. That's his prerogative. If you don't want to buy his stuff because he isn't in your camp, that's your prerogative.

But, as I said before, if you take that position, I have feeling you'll be buying close to nothing, because, for the reasons I stated previously, the vast majority of companies are likely to play ball. The only thing that will stop that is if the courts shoot it down (which is possible.)

True. He doesn't have to fight.
So far, he has only written a letter pleading with his employees to please, please, please, get the shot. That's kind of like the old cold war drills where students hide under their desks because a nuclear missile is incoming. He's just hoping it will all go away.

If he doesn't want to fight, he may lose a lot of good employees AND a lot of customers. Yes, companies exist to make money. If he chooses not to fight he may end up losing liberty AND money. It's both a business decision AND a personal decision.

The current admin is difficult to differentiate from Nazi in many ways. If these mandates are unethical, immoral and unjust, don't we have a duty to reject them? These mandates are effectively orders from a nazi like regime. They should not be followed. Just following orders is not appropriate here.

On top of that, it's one thing if the shots were 90% effective and longer lasting. But the shots are, what, 40% effective? And only last a few months? And carry significant health risks (perhaps not high probability but certainly can be deadly). For what? To pad the pockets of what should rightfully be a bankrupt, dissolved company?

How much will the CEO care if even a single employee dies from the shot? Would he decide differently? If not, he's in the tyrant pool.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
scare businesses just enough to do the government's dirty work for them.

This has been discussed a lot among my coworkers.

While workers lose their jobs if not vaccinated, NY prison inmates are being offered incentives to take the shot. They can get McDonalds, pizza, and a special roast beef holiday meal if they agree to be vaccinated. Why can working class people be punished while inmates are rewarded?

Imagine the brand loyalty and future revenues for Hornady had he simply terminated his GOV contract and fully engaged the consumer market. Somebody will figure this out in the coming weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by darkest2000:

So what can you do to avoid this? Shut down the company, lay off people so they're under 100?

Grant all the employees a religious exemption and make the government prove it doesn’t apply.

I like this answer

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Imagine the brand loyalty and future revenues for Hornady had he simply terminated his GOV contract and fully engaged the consumer market. Somebody will figure this out in the coming weeks.

The moment a government contractor ceases the contract this administration will put the IRS and ATF all over them and in a week be shut down and indicted.

quote:

Originally posted by springnr:
I'm not a CEO, but Hornady should be aware that we the citizens have been suffering through an ammo shortage. I could stand to buy another 5k or so of ammo, please make your output available to US citizens.

Is the army going to buy rounds from China?

With this administration? Probably.

No EO from slow Joe, no letter from OSHA, so no way for state AGs to challenge the feds in court.

Companies, on the other hand, ARE threatening employees with termination in violation of a number of federal laws (HIPAA, ADA, NLRA all come to mind, probably more) and state laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of religious beliefs. Don’t tell me there are NO Christian Scientists and other religions that oppose this. So if I were in this situation, as an individual, I’d sue the companies, cities and states. I’d also organize fellow employees in as many different states as possible to do the same. Make it expensive for cowardly companies, and try to get rulings in more than one Circuit Court. Especially if said rulings conflict with each other, forcing the Supreme Court’s hand.

As far as Steve Hornady goes, may he crouch down and lick the hands that feed him, may his chains rest lightly upon him, and may posterity forget that he was our countryman.

I've seen the FEDs freeze bank accounts and freeze contract payments.

If they want to, they can kill a company quickly.

We're going to have to start figuring out how to effectively fight back against a government set on killing the country and handing it over to our enemies. Most of the time they aren't going to knock on our doors, they're going to completely bankrupt and disrupt our businesses first.

I'd sure like to see some answers on this soon. I hate seeing 2A companies like this cave. I'm not sure I know how they can fight it, unless we somehow help them. What's the solution? The courts are against us, the average American has no backbone to fight anything difficult. I'm watching person after person cave and show their vaccine card when the final day comes and they're due to walk out the door.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
scare businesses just enough to do the government's dirty work for them.

What an incredible abuse of power.

Where does it end? The President wakes up one morning and decides people aren’t getting enough vitamin C, says follow the science, then commands all companies with over 100 employees command their employees take a vitamin C pill. How can anyone be against vitamin C, am I right? Why the 100 employee limit? 99 employees and no one cares about their safety, add 1 more and it’s a national emergency.