Hornady has 200 employees.
If he had balls, he'd split the company in half and carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:
First of all, let me tell you that I, too, detest this socialistic approach to government and their mandates.

But, put yourself in Steve Hornady's shoes for a few minutes. He runs a company of >100 employees that makes a product in serious shortage right now. Yes, he has attorneys at his beck and call and you might suspect he has discussed options with them prior to this memo.

They have told him he is unlikely to achieve any legal remedy to this mandate in the time allotted for it to happen and that the Biden DOJ will simply come after him in another court immediately for a reversal if they were successful in the first place.

What would you do? You have people you employ that depend upon their income to feed, clothe, and house their families. You need them at work producing a product on which many rely.

You're further told that the Biden administration is largely rejecting religious and medical waivers related to the vaccine.

There is a time to fight big government and a time to keep your powder dry and plan a strategy.

Let's hope that Hornady, who is not an idiot or liberal hack, is planning his next move.
You might want to cut him a little slack.

RMD

I fully agree with this statement. It is very easy to sit back and criticize when you don't have ANY skin in this game. How about thinking what you would do if the government comes in and padlocks all of YOUR doors.

What pisses me off about this whole mess is that those who caught Covid and recovered are not considered "vaccinated". Which is a full crock of SHIT because a NATURAL immunity often trumps a vaccine produced immunity.

The company I work for sent an email to all hands saying much the same as the one posted. The email said that they had to because biden signed an EO stating that all defense contractors had to comply or they would be non-compliance and their contracts would be canceled plus not eligible for future contracts, thus putting them out of business.

So basically their options are complying and let some employees go, or not complying and letting everyone go.

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:

You might want to cut him a little slack.

RMD

Not a chance. Cowardly, unvirtuous actions like this deserves endless, merciless ridicule. This is a bluff from the feds, and this weak kneed jelly fish of a man is all too happy to buy into it. The government has no way to enforce this authoritarian edict.

The things I'm seeing around the country right now make me want to puke.

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Fredward - I believe the GOV is using OSHA to push this mandate through and their findings have been formally submitted to Washington. Not sure what that really means - but it is enough to generate a cowardly response from Hornady.

Only recommendations have been submitted to the White House concerning their BS mandate in regards to private businesses. Nothing is official yet in that regard, so if Hornady is doing this only in anticipation of it, then he's an even bigger coward than I gave him credit for.

But I took it that he was doing this because of having government contracts. If so, I thought it didn't apply to current contracts but would if those contracts were renewed. If he had balls, he'd tell the government to pound sand just like Delta and Southwest CEO's did.

STEVE HORNADY IS A COWARD. Cut him some slack? Please.

Posted this in the COVID thread:

I'll bet you Hornady got bullied by the .gov and they are treating them as a "government contractor" and for the gov contractor and federal worker EO from King Biden, there IS NO TESTING option in lieu of the vaccine. It's get it by 8 Dec or get fired. This is completely separate from this OSHA/100 worker mandate BS.

If they make ammo for the USG, this is how they may be getting bullied into this.

I'm also an employee who's at risk of being terminated over the mandate, and absolutely feel as employer's should contest the issue fully.

To capitulate and say there's nothing that can be done? Nonsense. Say goodbye to your freedoms in the immediate future as this won't be the last salvo in the war on America as we knew it, Steve.

quote:

Delta and Southwest CEO's did

Not so fast. Delta may have done something good here in that I <think> they offered testing in place of vaccination, but SW ONLY said they would allow those with religious and medical waiver under review to continue working after the deadline IF their review had not been settled.

I agree that more CEO's should tell Biden to pound sand, but I'm not a CEO and not privileged to what pressures .gov is bringing to bear. As far as Hornady, there aren't a whole lot of alternate employment opportunities in Grand Island, NE; he may be doing his employees a favor by laying out the plan as he did.


It's easy for us to sit back and quarterback these decisions as weak and spineless when our livelihood is not on the line. Unless we see a widespread revolt against this mandate, we are likely to see a great deal of corporate compliance.

What will be interesting is watching what happens in the "BLUE" cities when they have to furlough 50% of their first responders due to the mandate.

RMD

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
I fully agree with this statement. It is very easy to sit back and criticize when you don't have ANY skin in this game. How about thinking what you would do if the government comes in and padlocks all of YOUR doors...

You realize there are thousands who have been fired or have resigned or are about to be fired because they chose to stand on principles, right? And some are your fellow SF members. Don't have any skin in the game? Please.

Employees being terminated over a completely illegal government action "Livelihood is not on the line"

As a single income family for the last 30 years, and having moved last year to this area where I guarantee salaries aren't in line with my current income - definitely have livelihood on the line.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Posted this in the COVID thread:

I'll bet you Hornady got bullied by the .gov and they are treating them as a "government contractor" and for the gov contractor and federal worker EO from King Biden, there IS NO TESTING option in lieu of the vaccine. It's get it by 8 Dec or get fired. This is completely separate from this OSHA/100 worker mandate BS.

If they make ammo for the USG, this is how they may be getting bullied into this.

But that is not what is said in the memo. He specifically talks about the OSHA ETS.

I’m an uncultured Neanderthal of a man and don’t quite understand the real world sometimes…

That being said, can’t the owner just tell OSHA to fuck right off? And keep on keeping on? It’s an illegal mandate, not a law. Eat shit, fuck off, not interested in your shenanigans. Everyone get back to work. My Neanderthal brain works that way. Can the govt do anything to stop it?

I believe its OSHA's plan to levy a heavy fine per offense for non-compliance. It would essentially bankrupt any company ignoring the new rule.

Looking at OSHA site and don't see a COVID ETS for anyone other than health care workers. The ETS for employers of more than 100 employees is still in review at OMB.

Aren't there only something like 800 employees at OSHA? How the hell would they enforce this BS mandate on every business with over 100 employees?

Biden Forced Americans Into A Game Of Chicken Over Their Livelihoods, And They’re Not Flinching

Somebody's got to give in this game of chicken, and Biden is gambling that it will be you. It's time to make sure he loses that bet.

There’s this iconic scene in the 1984 “Footloose” where Kevin Bacon’s city-boy character Ren McCormack goes head-to-head with his macho antagonist Chuck Cranston to show who’s the bigger man in a game of “chicken.”

The two young men mount tractors on opposite ends of a single-lane road facing each other and drive full speed ahead to see who flinches first. In this hazardous game, one of them must swerve off the path, or both could die in the head-on collision — but the first one to swerve will be dubbed the “chicken” for his cowardice. After Ren’s shoelace gets caught on the throttle, keeping him unwittingly on the path, Chuck embarrassingly barrels off his rig at the bitter end into a ditch of water — right in front of his girlfriend, who subsequently falls in love with the victor.

That scene keeps coming to mind as President Joe Biden’s administration squares off with the American people. The president who promised unity, leadership, and a return to normalcy has challenged you to a game of chicken, is charging at you, and is waiting for you to flinch.
Biden’s Game of Chicken

Nowhere has this intimidation tactic been as clear as with medically coercive vaccine mandates. Near the start of Biden’s tenure, after shots were rolled out quickly thanks to Trump’s efforts, Biden left no doubt about his position: It wasn’t just that vaccines were good, but that everyone who was eligible for a vaccine should get one as soon as possible.

So Americans began doing calculations. Many who knew that their risk factors were heightened prudently jumped in line for the first available shots, but others not so much. Lots of pregnant women paused, unwilling to undertake extra risks quite yet. Many others with natural immunity decided to sit this one out for a while, as did a horde of the young and healthy, who have never been at serious risk of dying from COVID-19.

After shooting up immediately, vaccination numbers then stalled, which didn’t please the Democrat administration that had promised to shut down the virus. Biden’s patience began “wearing thin.”

And so there were talks of vaccine passports. New York City instituted them, and federal bureaucrats such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention touted them as a potential “path forward” in July. At that time, Biden was toying with the idea of requiring shots, not just for medical workers, but for all federal employees.

Opponents were seeing the writing on the wall. When the ruling class began medically segregating people into first- and second-class citizens, the fight became less about the necessity of universal vaccination and more about the importance of medical freedom. And instead of falling in lockstep with the administration’s goals, Biden’s detractors began piling onto the opposing tractor.

Biden didn’t veer. He forged full speed ahead with the declaration that in addition to all federal workers, all private workers for companies with at least 100 employees would need to get the jab or get endlessly tested, reportedly affecting more than 80 million private-sector Americans.

Despite this fascist announcement being nothing more than a press release, companies caved to the president’s wishes left and right. From hospitals and major airlines, to police departments and universities, head honchos adopted Biden’s refrain: Get a COVID shot or be fired. With alarming authoritarianism, Biden and the private sector chiefs he deputized to enforce his vaxx ambitions went full throttle.
A Refusal to Flinch

Something remarkable has occurred in response. Countless American workers have remained unflinching. Instead of veering off the path, they’ve held the line, turning in their boots, hanging up their scrubs, and unpinning their wings.

While the number of administered vaccine doses trended up slightly at the end of September and beginning of October, the jump wasn’t drastic — and it actually appeared to coincide with a rise in booster shots. According to the data, the number of fully vaxxed Americans has gone up only 3 percentage points since Biden’s fearmongering private-sector declaration more than a month ago on Sept. 9.

Instead, what we’ve seen day after day are brave men and women who either kept driving ahead with worker strikes or counted the cost of medical freedom and opted to completely walk away from their careers. It’s working. The more workers refuse to comply, the more other employees are emboldened to join them. And the more these freedom-fighters pile on, the more their bosses learn things don’t go so smoothly when the employees you rely on for everyday operations quit en masse.

Take what happened with Southwest Airlines, which was forced to cancel several thousand flights just days after it mandated the vaccine for workers. A rumored “sickout” resulted in reportedly only three out of 33 air traffic controllers showing up to work.

Despite Southwest’s denial that the mayhem was a result of its vaxx policy, after several days of chaos, the airline changed course and walked back its pledge to begin putting workers who applied for vaccine exemptions on unpaid leave in December. As The Federalist reported on Wednesday, sources said that part of Southwest’s meltdown was because pilots took their paid sick leave shortly before they were scheduled to be fired.

A San Francisco In-N-Out is displaying the same courage, with the local health department shutting it down for not checking patrons’ vaccination status.

“We refuse to become the vaccination police for any government,” In-N-Out Chief Legal and Business Officer Arnie Wensinger told Newsweek. “We fiercely disagree with any government dictate that forces a private company to discriminate against customers who choose to patronize their business. This is a clear government overreach.”

Noncompliant health workers are quitting or being fired in droves. By Monday, one-third of Chicago’s desperately needed police were reportedly still unvaccinated, opting for unpaid leave over getting the shot. Seattle police officers and firefighters are getting similar treatment. After being fired for refusing to comply with medically coercive mandates, the brave first responders fed the homeless and then marched up to City Hall to return their boots.

The fact is, this is the beginning of the fight, and if Americans chicken out and comply against their convictions, it will be the end of medical freedom. Several thousand workers across a few industries might be expendable to the COVID authoritarians right now, but weak points can only withstand so much pressure. The worker shortage is only getting worse.

Somebody’s got to give in this game of chicken, and Biden is gambling that it will be you. It’s time to make sure he loses that bet. Timid Americans are holding out for a hero, for a reason not to just give in and get this strong-arming over with — but we’ll never escape tyranny by capitulating to it. Be the hero they need. When freedom is at stake, don’t barrel off. Go full throttle.

https://thefederalist.com/2021...heyre-not-flinching/

Companies do not exist to fight political battles. They exist to make money. This especially true if it isn't THEIR political battle. Fighting the mandate would likely be exponentially more expensive and risky than complying with it. Not to mention that some companies likely agree with the mandate as a way of minimizing their downtime do to Covid infections.

As we know, there is a cadre of people who are militantly opposed to the vaccine mandates, apparently you included. It's not all people. I kind of doubt its even a majority. It would be idiotic for them to expect any miscellaneous company to fight this battle for them. If you decide you won't buy from any company that won't, I have a feeling you won't have many companies to buy stuff from.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Hornady has 200 employees.
If he had balls, he'd split the company in half and carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Biden Forced Americans Into A Game Of Chicken Over Their Livelihoods, And They’re Not Flinching

Somebody's got to give in this game of chicken, and Biden is gambling that it will be you. It's time to make sure he loses that bet.

There’s this iconic scene in the 1984 “Footloose” where Kevin Bacon’s city-boy character Ren McCormack goes head-to-head with his macho antagonist Chuck Cranston to show who’s the bigger man in a game of “chicken.”

I am all in.
Sitting in the tractor seat with everything to loose, but my salvation.
At this point, it looks like my tractor is headed to the ditch, but hoping for a correction of course.

I shall no longer buy Hornady products. A few hundred dollars won’t mean much to them I’m sure. Depending on how it goes, I may be forced to only buy from the ones that held out the longest if I want to keep up my hobby. There are lots of small folks making bullets for now.

There are plenty of ammo makers, if Hornady makes Dot.gov mad they pull his contracts, then maybe 200 people go hungry.

Nobody wants to be the example on how to go bankrupt, force employees to lose income and homes, for .gov...

Tough place to be, short timeline, too short for court orders?

Imagine he'd be hoping someone would challenge this rule from OHSA...

He did not need to say what he said in his letter. It could of been worded a lot different. Which would of made a lot more sense.

I think many companies are trying to figure out what to do and how to proceed. He has chosen his route and I like tens of thousand will not support his business any longer. Wonder if his old man would of done what this guy did. I doubt it.

Good ridens Hornady. You blew it. I hope a bunch of his employees leave. That is what he deserves.

Another "boot licker" to add to the list.