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Member
Picture of pulicords
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
The US government- that is to say, the people working within and for the departments, and in all their various functions, and the rules, regulations and laws they serve- had nothing to do with the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Lee Harvey Oswald, in his hatred of the society in which his genuinely crazy mother told him he would be royalty, but which never came to pass, understood that political assassination was the most effective means of a man acting alone to change a nation. One man with a rifle, with an opportunity, and in an era where presidential security was much more lax than today; that's all it took.


Local law enforcement (Dallas PD) not only jumped in on the investigation from the start, Officer J.D. Tippit paid the ultimate price (his life) attempting to take Oswald into custody. Does anyone really believe the entire Dallas Police Department would collude with the federal government to cover this up??? Roll Eyes


https://www.odmp.org/officer/13338-officer-j-d-tippit


"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
 
Posts: 10187 | Location: The Free State of Arizona | Registered: June 13, 2007Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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“Why” did Oswald do it?

I suggest that anyone who seriously questions why he did it and isn’t just indulging his fantasies by deliberately ignoring the ample evidence why educate themselves with that evidence by looking at Oswald’s background and activities before the murder. Like many leftists today, he hated the United States, had his own fantasy view of Communism in general and the Soviet Union and Cuba in particular, and didn’t like the people who didn’t share his beliefs. That was the reason why he tried to kill General Walker months before Kennedy.

As for what he expected to accomplish by killing either Walker or Kennedy, ask what assassins and attempted assassins like John Wilkes Booth, Charles J. Guiteau, Leon Czolgosz, John Flammang Schrank, Giuseppe Zangara*, John Hinckley Jr., Lynette “Squeaky” Fromme, James Earl Ray, Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, and others, including the Puerto Rican nationalists in the US expected to accomplish, not to mention what people like Gavrilo Princip and countless others in the rest of the world expected to accomplish by their acts other than to act out their hatreds. And if those examples aren’t enough, what did the men who have killed masses of strangers here in one incident after another expect to accomplish? It’s far easier to find many more examples of assassins of public figures who didn’t really expect to accomplish anything than it is to find any who had a rational expectation that their deed would change things in any beneficial way.

* Had he been successful in his attempt to kill president-elect FDR, he would have changed world history in profound ways, but he had no way of knowing that at the time.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
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If I was investigating this, back in 1964, I would not look at the Dallas PD, but I would pursue who ordered the unauthorized change in the motorcade route. Oswald may have been egged on to do this deed, or simply was known that he would do it if the opportunity arose. The FBI knew he had the desire and the skills to commit such a crime, then why was he not watched more carefully on this fateful day?

It would only take a few persons to make changes that would enable Oswald to kill our president. Lots of blame to go around, but I would follow the trail that caused the parade route to deviate off of the authorized path.


-c1steve
 
Posts: 4041 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012Report This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by c1steve:
If I was investigating this, back in 1964, I would not look at the Dallas PD, but I would pursue who ordered the unauthorized change in the motorcade route.
Well, '64 has come and gone, but you can take a crack at it in 2021. Let us know what you find.


____________________________________________________

"I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023
 
Posts: 107266 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
It would only take a few persons to make changes that would enable Oswald to kill our president. Lots of blame to go around, but I would follow the trail that caused the parade route to deviate off of the authorized path.



So why were the emergency room doctors eating lunch and not waiting for the Presidential limo to arrive at Parkland Hospital that day? They were not waiting and ready when the limo arrived and didn't know it was coming or what had happened
How could this be? 1963 was a different times.

The Zapruder film was a lucky stroke back then. Much of the detail analysis came from that 8mm movie camera footage. Today everybody would have had video from all angles on their phones. Not back then.


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Posts: 9456 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Report This Post
A Grateful American
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The route was changed when ist was realized that JFK could not get a flight on American Airlines flight 77...




"the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב!
 
Posts: 43810 | Location: ...... I am thrice divorced, and I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!! (in Arkansas) | Registered: December 20, 2008Report This Post
Member
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Richard Pavlik the guy who tried to kill Kennedy first. The Smithsonian channel is running a series called Ten Steps to Disaster detailing all the lapses in security, many of them due to JFK himself. 73 year old disgruntled postal worker. Fashioned a suicide vest to blow up both himself and JFK.
 
Posts: 17177 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Report This Post
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There is a mountain of evidence that Oswald acted alone, however I do not believe in conincidences when there is a presidential
assassination. When money hungry persons, such as in the military industrial complex who want the war to go on, and Kennedy saying we are going to pull the troops out, there are tremendous forces that have the ability to alter what we think is the truth.

As the ER doctors did not know Kennedy was on the way, was this just poor action by the USSS? Or did someone willfully delay calling the hospital? Probably just an error, but there were so many errors and "coincidences".

This has some parallels to our recent stolen election, official proclamations and phony evidence declaring there was no theft, while anyone with their eyes open knows the truth.


-c1steve
 
Posts: 4041 | Location: West coast | Registered: March 31, 2012Report This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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You keep running your mouth without saying anything. I would be ashamed to have my ignorance paraded through this thread, but you don't seem to have a clue about even that.

You've never bothered to research this matter in a proper way and it is apparent you never will. All you desire is to have your uninformed prejudices confirmed. Get a clue.

On this very page, you "wonder" about motorcade routes, and in the 11 days since you made your remark, I can guarantee that you've done no actual research on your question.

Let the adults handle matters such as this. You're just playing cowboys-and-indians in the side yard.
 
Posts: 107266 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
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JFK is still dead.

Now remember this- the (allegedly) most "secretive" unit in the United States Military couldn't keep its mouth shut about killing Osama Ben laden...
What makes you think anyone can keep their mouth shut about killing the President of the United States?

Want the truth?
JFK is still dead.


______________________________________________________________________
"When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!"

“What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy
 
Posts: 8322 | Location: Attempting to keep the noise down around Midway Airport | Registered: February 14, 2008Report This Post
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Picture of Lt CHEG
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quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:

So why were the emergency room doctors eating lunch and not waiting for the Presidential limo to arrive at Parkland Hospital that day? They were not waiting and ready when the limo arrived and didn't know it was coming or what had happened


JFK could have been shot in an operating room, after having been prepped for surgery, with the nation’s best surgeons already scrubbed and ready to roll and it wouldn’t have made a difference. A quarter of the guy’s brain was blasted out of his head, that was not a survivable wound.




“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
 
Posts: 5562 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: February 28, 2002Report This Post
Page late and a dollar short
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About Dallas PD investigating the assassination, it was their case. At that time there was no Federal statutes in place for that crime, it wasn’t until later in 1963 that it became a Federal crime.


-------------------------------------——————
————————--Ignorance is a powerful tool if applied at the right time, even, usually, surpassing knowledge(E.J.Potter, A.K.A. The Michigan Madman)
 
Posts: 8067 | Location: Livingston County Michigan USA | Registered: August 11, 2002Report This Post
I Am The Walrus
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And even if Kennedy had somehow survived that shooting, that rat bastard LBJ would have been president anyway. No way JFK could have been functioning well enough with 1/4 of his brain missing to be POTUS.

Just like Lennon’s ER doctors said, he could’ve been shot there in the ER with the best trauma surgeons available and still died.


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Posts: 13050 | Registered: March 12, 2005Report This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:

So why were the emergency room doctors eating lunch and not waiting for the Presidential limo to arrive at Parkland Hospital that day? They were not waiting and ready when the limo arrived and didn't know it was coming or what had happened


JFK could have been shot in an operating room, after having been prepped for surgery, with the nation’s best surgeons already scrubbed and ready to roll and it wouldn’t have made a difference. A quarter of the guy’s brain was blasted out of his head, that was not a survivable wound.



You missed my point completely. I understand that was never a survivable wound, then or now, no matter how close medical help could have been.

My point was that in today's world, nearby medical facilities would be aware of any Presidential visit and communication would have been instantaneous. The staff wouldn't have been in the lunchroom, completely unaware the President was on the way. That and a lot of other things are done differently today.
For anyone to look at how things happened in 1963 and say it is proof of some sort of conspiracy or even suspicious, just because it isn't up to present day standards, doesn't understand the different world we live in today VS then.
All sorts of things, for example, the open top limo, are used by some to claim malfeasance by this imaginary conspiracy. The truth in that case is that Kennedy himself insisted on the open top. He was behind in the polls and thought people would think less of him hidden in the limo. The Kennedy family did a lot of risky things over the years and several paid a price for that.

The clearest example is that two people have a hard time keeping a secret. When you look at how many people would have to be involved, without anyone talking for all these decades, that alone makes this idea of a vast conspiracy impossible.


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Posts: 9456 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Report This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
That and a lot of other things are done differently today.


This is just one of many things about the assassination that conspiracists to this day are either too stupid or too obstinately ignorant to understand and accept. Even something as the obvious reason why no one was standing by in the ER as Kennedy was riding through town is food for their ridiculous ideas: If they were having lunch and not ready to respond to an incident the likes of which hadn’t occurred in 60 years, there must have been a reason.. Well yes, there was a reason: Because it was lunchtime, and that’s what they did at lunchtime: have lunch.

Although I was never permanently assigned to a protective service (bodyguard) detail, I did serve on many missions, including for extended periods protecting the Secretary of Defense and other high level officials. One thing that was obvious to anyone who does that for any time is that the level of protection is seldom, if ever, complete and perfect. There are many reasons for that, including what the principal wants and will accept. Most want less, not more, protection, as was true of JFK in Dallas. Other reasons usually involve practical matters whose flaws and weaknesses are readily apparent, but simply are what they are, and are accepted as being unavoidable under the circumstances.

But perhaps I’m being too harsh. Just as we have legal experts who have never set foot in a law school, medical experts whose training has been limited to a Red Cross CPR class, we have experts on issues surrounding an event nearly 58 years ago and before most of them were even born, so who am I to criticize? Roll Eyes




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
Big Stack
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I thought it was fairly well understood that Carlos Marcello, the NOLA mob boss was behind the assassinations of JFK and RK. He certainly had motive. And a lot of the key players had ties to him. When they had him locked up toward the end of his life,, he may have confessed to another prisoner, but that's heresay.
 
Posts: 21240 | Registered: November 05, 2003Report This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I thought it was fairly well understood that Carlos Marcello, the NOLA mob boss was behind the assassinations of JFK and RK. He certainly had motive. And a lot of the key players had ties to him. When they had him locked up toward the end of his life,, he may have confessed to another prisoner, but that's heresay.
Horse shit. Yet another of the infinite conspiracy theories, all of which are nothing but fantasy.
 
Posts: 107266 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I thought it was fairly well understood that Carlos Marcello, the NOLA mob boss was behind the assassinations of JFK and RK.


Understood by whom? Confused

And of course, one of the immediate follow-up questions about such a claim is if that man managed to pull off the two most amazing conspiratorial operations in history with never a shred of independent proof of his involvement having been revealed, why didn’t he use a tiny bit of his power and influence to avoid going to prison? And also of course, he would have never made a false “confession” while in prison just to enhance his status there; if he said it, it must be true, just as if it appears on the Internet it must be true. Roll Eyes




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
Big Stack
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The House Select Committee who investigated the assassination.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Marcello

quote:

In its 1978 investigation of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, the House Select Committee on Assassinations said that it recognized Jack Ruby's murder of Lee Harvey Oswald as a primary reason to suspect organized crime as possibly having involvement in the assassination.[20] In its investigation, the HSCA noted the presence of "credible associations relating both Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby to figures having a relationship, albeit tenuous, with Marcello's crime family or organization".[20] Their report stated: "The committee found that Marcello had the motive, means and opportunity to have President John F. Kennedy assassinated, though it was unable to establish direct evidence of Marcello's complicity".


There have been others that say the same thing. Read the rest of the section in the wiki entry.

I'm not an expert on this, and I'm not digging into it. But without doing any work Marcello's name keeps coming up. If you look at what Bobby Kennedy did to him, especially since JFK was supposed to be the Mob's guy, it would make sense that he'd want them (both John and Bobby) dead.

quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I thought it was fairly well understood that Carlos Marcello, the NOLA mob boss was behind the assassinations of JFK and RK.


Understood by whom? Confused

And of course, one of the immediate follow-up questions about such a claim is if that man managed to pull off the two most amazing conspiratorial operations in history with never a shred of independent proof of his involvement having been revealed, why didn’t he use a tiny bit of his power and influence to avoid going to prison? And also of course, he would have never made a false “confession” while in prison just to enhance his status there; if he said it, it must be true, just as if it appears on the Internet it must be true. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 21240 | Registered: November 05, 2003Report This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
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Man, just stop. For God's sake, stop.
 
Posts: 107266 | Registered: January 20, 2000Report This Post
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