Bugliosi's book explains pretty much everything and if that's not enough, Gerald Posners, Case Closed does the same with even more information about Oswald's life in the Soviet Union.
Those that weren't alive back then may not understand the differences in 1960's America and today.
For example, the limo sped to Parkland Hospital and upon arrival, the emergency room staff was having lunch in the lunchroom, unaware the President was there. Just read the parts around that time frame to understand the differences.
Ruby had gone down to the area of the police station for some other business and decided to see what was going on at the police station. He owned a nearby strip club and knew many of the police well so nobody really noticed his presence until he did the act.

The unreleased files do seem strange, even Trump wouldn't release all of them. The investigation was far reaching, including Cuba and the Soviet Union and I'd suspect someone very old but still at risk shows up providing information. That's the only real mystery to me.

Whodunnut? Of course.

All the details and minutiae about why everyone did what they did and? Nope.

One Word....Cottage Industry

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Oswald had not been killed by Jack Ruby. Would the facts, circumstances, conspiracy theories, conjecture, be the same (or similar) as they now are?

quote:

Originally posted by ggile:
I sometimes wonder what would have happened if Oswald had not been killed by Jack Ruby. Would the facts, circumstances, conspiracy theories, conjecture, be the same (or similar) as they now are?

Not the same, no doubt. But any more “settled”? Not necessarily.

MLK’s murderer, James Earl Ray, denied that he was the killer and as I remember MLK’s family came to accept his denial, evidently because they wanted to believe in some other grand conspiratorial plot orchestrated by the FBI or someone else.

Although Oswald’s guilt as JFK’s murderer was proved just as conclusively, if not more so, he reportedly did say, “I didn’t kill anyone,” so he might have maintained his innocence. Who knows what sorts of ideas that would have supported, especially if he backed it up with any sort of claim about his rifle having been stolen, his being kidnapped and drugged, etc. None of that would have been too likely at the time, but certainly possible after he had been locked up and had time to think about his situation for a time.

Added: And all the bizarre theories would not necessarily been headed off even if Oswald had confessed and cooperated with the investigation completely. Any confession could have been explained away as coerced, bought (in exchange for some benefit to him or his family), or due to threats from his supposed co-conspirators.

I seem to remember reading long ago that the files were not to be released for 75 years after either the assassination itself or the release of the Warren report (I can't remember which).

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Bugliosi's book explains pretty much everything and if that's not enough, Gerald Posners, Case Closed does the same with even more information about Oswald's life in the Soviet Union.

If you really want to understand what a common man was Oswald, read Norman Mailer's Oswald's Tale. A copy sits on my bookshelf right next to Posner's book.

It should come as no surprise that the KGB would bug the apartment of an American defector, a former United States Marine. There are extensive transcripts of this boob fighting with his wife, saying stupid shit and in general demonstrating he was no criminal mastermind.

Do you want to know why Oswald turned out so screwed up? His batshit crazy mother did it to him. She made him feel as if he was truly special, imbued him with a deep sense of entitlement, and when life didn't give him what he was told he deserved, he became a defector, a traitor to his country, a rabble-rouser, and ultimately, a murderer.

I would guess it's to avoid scrutiny of severe incompetence:

The Lincoln had a plexiglass bubble top that was supposed to be used, but JFK wanted to be "closer to the people" and ride without it. Secret Service should have mandated the bubble top and not let JFK make that decision.

The change in route to an un-vetted path is also a severe blunder. Parade routes are now vetted in advance and every building checked, every manhole cover welded shut, security perimeters set up, etc. They do not take any chances.

Perhaps they had a file on Oswald indicating he "might" do something, just like they knew in advance about the 9/11 hijackers attending flight school in the US, and somehow ruled him out and didn't do anything.

Most if not all of the decision makers are dead now, but showing that gov't incompetence permitted the most significant assassination of the 20th century to occur, which possibly altered the path of history - cold war, Cuba, vietnam, civil rights, great society, the election of Nixon when Johnson declined to run for re-election, etc. - is not something they want to do.

RIGHT NOW they are trying to get millions of Americans to believe that a massive increase in government control is good for the country and will make things better. Releasing a counterexample is not going to help their case.

Personally, I think Ruby killing Oswald is the thing that sets conspiracy theorists off. It DOES resemble the "kill all the conspirators" ethos mentioned in a couple posts already. Oswald got lucky due to the open convertible and the placement of his shots. Sometimes random things line up so well to allow something to happen that it looks like it had to be planned.

Take a look at how 3 Mile Island nearly melted down 40-some years ago. It is another comedy of unlikely mechanical, electrical, and human errors that all stacked up in a way that most would deem statistically impossible, but it did happen.

The largely overlooked victim in the entire mess:
J.D. Tippit, Dallas PD.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: YooperSigs,

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
This thread itself is the perfect example of why you will never know.

cas, what are you doing, dropping a remark like this in this thread and then failing to explain it? I'll ask you again to explain this remark.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
The largely overlooked victim in the entire mess:
J.D. Tippet, Dallas PD.

And not only overlooked, but studiously ignored by most fans of conspiracy theories that claim Oswald was an innocent patsy. When such conspiracists do acknowledge Tippet’s murder rather than just pretending it never happened, they come up with some of the most bizarre of the rationalizations of all.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
The change in route to an un-vetted path is also a severe blunder. Parade routes are now vetted in advance and every building checked, every manhole cover welded shut, security perimeters set up, etc. They do not take any chances.

This is what bothers me. Statistically what are the chances that someone with the ability and desire to kill the president of the US, happens to work in a building with a perfect vantage point, and the parade route just happened to be re-routed?

If it was Trump that was shot, most people would believe the FBI or other group of power hungry deep staters were behind it, regardless of "evidence". Some of Oswald's last words were "I am not a patsy". He may have been the only one who pulled the trigger, but could easily have been egged on by anti-Kennedy types with connections to local government.

Just like the "We have to go into the capital" "Fed" helped set up hundreds of persons for arrest, the CIA or others could have goaded Oswald to pull the trigger.

When evil persons plan something, they often develop a cover story for themselves to look innocent and the fall guy to be guilty.

Please list your research since you last commented on this subject 16 months ago. Which books have you read? Which research sites have you visited? Did you look at the content of any of the links I provided you last year?

From what I can tell, you simply want there to be a conspiracy. It's clear that you know nothing about this incident.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
When evil persons plan something, they often develop a cover story for themselves to look innocent and the fall guy to be guilty.

Speaking in generalities means nothing, and you are going to find I have little patience with you continuing this pure speculation.

quote:

Some of Oswald's last words were "I am not a patsy".

That is not what he said, and your misquoting of him is illustrative of your ignorance on this subject which you have chosen to wade into in this forum, more than once.

quote:

If it was Trump that was shot, most people would believe the FBI or other group of power hungry deep staters were behind it, regardless of "evidence".

Almost sixty years have passed since this incident. Every last speck of evidence has been looked at from ten thousand different angles. I want you to stop with this stuff.

I am making my wife read this thread !! Soooo tired of hearing about her thoughts on JFK being only weeks away from dismantling the CIA when he was killed.

Sometimes people just kill other people.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Graniteguy,

If, there was a deep state collaborate effort, to remove President Kennedy, we'll never know until Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg and many of us, are pushing up daisies.

Another question I literally have always had is if Oswald was “goaded” into committing the crime by some evil masterminds, why in the ever-lovin’ blue-eyed world didn’t they help ensure that he was armed with a more efficient weapon? If we’re trying to kill someone from a distance, his choice of rifle, sight, cartridge, and ammunition were about the best way to ensure the effort would fail.

It’s often reported, including by those most enamored of the theories, that the rifle and sight were horribly imprecise and inaccurate. The round-nosed full metal jacket bullets fired are among the least effective of those ever adopted for military purposes for producing wounding effects. Not only is the bullet designed to not expand in flesh in compliance with law of warfare agreements, but its round nose and high sectional density help prevent its even tumbling as do spitzer style FMJ bullets. The bullet that hit Kennedy in the back might have caused paralysis due to spinal damage, but otherwise he would have probably survived the wound, as did Connally despite being shot through with the same bullet.

My immediate thought when Oswald’s gun and ammunition were revealed was, “Why did he use that‽” Even if he felt compelled to use that rifle, why not at least an expanding bullet hunting load? If that was my question as a 17-year-old with little actual experience with high-powered rifles at the time, were the people who were clever enough to convince Oswald to do the shooting and capable enough to accomplish everything else that made the assassination possible really so clueless about guns and wound ballistics?

I don’t expect the average conspiracy theory fan to understand and appreciate all that, but it puzzles me that anyone who knows the least bit about firearms, ammunition, and their capabilities and effects thinks that Oswald’s choices were perfectly reasonable for his intended task. And which, initially, was the murder of General Edwin Walker, not JFK—another commonly overlooked fact.

Edwin Walker? I did not know that. Thanks.

Yes, Oswald attempted to murder Walker in April, 1963. Oswald confessed this to his wife, Marina and her sworn testimony is part of the Warren Commission hearings and is also in the National Archives

Edwin Walker Assassination Attempt

Regarding the murder of Dallas police officer J.D. Tippit on 11/22/1963, twelve people gave testimony, including eyewitnesses, and at the time of his arrest, Oswald was in possession of the cut-down S&W .38-200 Victory Model which had been rechambered to .38 Special which had been used to kill Tippit.

Murder of J.D. Tippit

Of course, once you get all this nailed down, the conspiracy theorists then shift into "patsy" mode, with the grassy knoll, umbrella man, the CIA, the Mafia, the Soviets, Fidel Castro and on and on. It never ends. They simply will not accept the mountains of evidence which have been available for almost six decades.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:...Oswald's last words were "I am not a patsy". ...

I can read lips, Oswald said: "Owwww!"

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
a defector, a traitor to his country, a rabble-rouser, and ultimately, a murderer.

Yes, and a self described Marxist.
From Vincent Bugliosi's book, when asked by Dallas police Captain Fritz "Are you a communist?" Oswald answered.

quote:

No, I am not a Communist. I am a Marxist, but not a Marxist-Leninist. Well, a Communist is a Leninist-Marxist, while I am a true Karl Marxist. I've read just about everything by or about Karl Marx.

And Bobby Kennedy was killed by a Communist.
From Sirhan's diary writings.

quote:

"Long live Communism. I firmly support the communist cause and its people. American capitalism will fall and give way to the worker's dictatorship."

So as stated in earlier posts, what would be revealed? "government ineptitude." Due to his defection to the Soviet Union, Oswald was not doubt on CIA and FBI lists (and how would the SS not know of him) and here he goes and kills the President right under their noses. They would like everyone to think it was some big deep dark muddied conspiracy instead of their incompetence.

quote:

“Temporary continued postponement is necessary to protect against identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or the conduct of foreign relations that is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in immediate disclosure,”