quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

"Win, lose or draw, regardless of of the electoral outcome, I would love to see Trump start a new party-The America First Party."

Well, if anyone could pull it off it would be Trump. But I doubt he would do it. We'll see.

Honestly, I think a third “Trump” party would just split off Republican voters, and ensure the Democrats always win. Bad idea IMHO.

In my opinion leaving the Republican Party intact will let the democrats always win. The swamp is deep on both sides. Many have been exposed. Let’s move away from them.

The Democrats don't need a third party to 'always win'. Do people really think future elections are going to now be held fairly?

I think a 3rd party would pull so many republicans away from the RINOs they would not ever win re-election.

Also, there is the possibility of denying any 1 party a majority.

I am sure there is a very long list that can be put together of the the advantages of a strong 3rd party. I have never seen one though. I only ever see doomsday scenarios of a 3rd party.

I think Trump and his voters have the ability to make a strong 3rd party a reality. Even if we do not get a majority, others would be forced to negotiate and compromise with us if they want anything done (at the very least).

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
I think a 3rd party would pull so many republicans away from the RINOs they would not ever win re-election.

Also, there is the possibility of denying any 1 party a majority.

I am sure there is a very long list that can be put together of the the advantages of a strong 3rd party. I have never seen one though. I only ever see doomsday scenarios of a 3rd party.

I think Trump and his voters have the ability to make a strong 3rd party a reality. Even if we do not get a majority, others would be forced to negotiate and compromise with us if they want anything done (at the very least).

You know. I never thought of it that way. Kill the majority for everyone and make them all negotiate.

Would probably create quite a bit of gridlock, but that's better than a dem majority/super majority. I've seen what a dem super majority looks like, ramming through every piece of shit they want. Sure isn't pretty.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo Jones:
If they successfully impeach him, he cant hold federal office in the future (acc. to El Rushbo), i.e. run for Pres in 2024, of which I think they are truly terrified, esp. after 4 yrs of "the Joe and Ho Shitshow"

Snip...

I know that. It's unlikely he could be elected in 2024 anyway after the shitshow two days ago. But if they impeach him, they make a martyr out of him and he will be more effective as an endorser and supporter of whoever picks up the flag (Don Jr. or someone else) than he will be as a 78 year old man.

quote:

Honestly, I think a third “Trump” party would just split off Republican voters, and ensure the Democrats always win. Bad idea IMHO.

quote:

In my opinion leaving the Republican Party intact will let the democrats always win. The swamp is deep on both sides. Many have been exposed. Let’s move away from them.

I think there's some merit to both lines of thinking here. We do need to drain the swamp and there are plenty of swamp creatures in both major parties.

It takes a lot of work at the local level, precinct by precinct, to organize a political party. There's a lot of phone calls and door knocking that go into every local election. I don't think you can have a national party without also winning seats at the local and state levels.

Highroundcount...

I am basing my theories on the UK and Israel.

Look at how they have to maneuver and form alliances. Unlike those systems though, the president or prime minister would not change here in the US when alliances break down.

They would have to court us on each and every issue.

To add... I do not think we have time to do this before this turns into some form of armed conflict however. I am trying though to find a non-violent solution that I could live with.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
The Democrats don't need a third party to 'always win'. Do people really think future elections are going to now be held fairly?

They weren't able to steal FL or OH and we still have some good people in red states, so if you want to play into their hands, then start a third party. I get it, but reacting on emotion like the sky is falling won't help. It will be a lot easier to take back the GOP.

48% will vote Democrat no matter what happens. At least 10-15% of GOP voters will never go third party, especially one started by President Trump. Do the math and realize how foolish it is to start a 3rd party.

I do believe Dominion is bluffing. This will be interesting.

Dominion Voting Systems files $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit against pro-Trump election attorney Sidney Powell


Dominion Voting Systems filed a defamation lawsuit on Friday against the pro-Trump attorney Sidney Powell, seeking $1.3 billion in damages.

For months Powell pushed a false conspiracy theory alleging that Dominion's election technology helped to falsify the result of the 2020 presidential election by switching votes from President Donald Trump to Joe Biden.

Her convoluted — and debunked — theory alleged Dominion was secretly in cahoots with a rival election-technology company, Smartmatic, and had links to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who died in 2013.

"Far from being created in Venezuela to rig elections for a now-deceased Venezuelan dictator, Dominion was founded in Toronto for the purpose of creating a fully auditable paper-based vote system that would empower people with disabilities to vote independently on verifiable paper ballots," Dominion's lawsuit said.

Smartmatic has also said it will pursue litigation against election conspiracy theorists and media organizations that gave them a platform.

Powell was one of the faces of the Trump campaign's legal team in November, but Trump kicked her off the team after she floated her conspiracy theory at a press conference alongside the attorneys Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis. Giuliani and Ellis remained on the campaign's legal team, even as both continued to spread falsehoods about the election and as Giuliani spread many of the same theories as Powell.

Despite being purged from Trump's "Elite Strike Force," Powell used her false theories as the premise of four federal lawsuits seeking to overturn the election result. All of them failed, and they have resulted in motions for her to be disbarred.

Dominion's 124-page defamation lawsuit — running nearly 2,000 pages with exhibits — filed in federal court in Washington, DC, outlines how Powell repeatedly spread lies about the company, flying in the face of evidence from election-certification and -security authorities and courts that found her claims meritless.

The voting-technology company said it arrived at the $1.3 billion figure by adding up the value of the contracts at risk because of the disinformation, punitive damages from her claim, and the recouping of the cost of litigation against her.

"These false allegations have caused catastrophic damage to this company. They have branded Dominion, a voting company, as perpetrating a massive fraud," Tom Clare, the attorney representing Dominion, said in a Zoom press conference on Friday. "Those allegations triggered a media firestorm that promoted those same false claims to a global audience. They've made the company radioactive and destroyed the value of its once thriving business and has put Dominion's multiyear contracts in jeopardy."

Powell didn't immediately respond to Insider's request for comment.

The case has been assigned to Judge Carl Nichols, a Trump appointee.

A lie spread through a right-wing media ecosystem

The lawsuit outlines how Powell used the right-wing media ecosystem to spread the theory. It says that Powell's falsehoods "in concert with like-minded allies and media outlets" had led to threats against Dominion employees and election officials.

It also points out that Trump tweeted videos of Powell, amplifying her claims "to his more than 88 million followers, instantly and irreparably damaging Dominion's reputation and business to a global audience and putting the lives of Dominion employees in danger."

Clare said Friday that this lawsuit against Powell would be the first in a series and that the company was still weighing whether to sue Trump.

He told Insider that he expected to sue other parties parallel to Powell rather than waiting for the lawsuit against her to conclude.

In December, Clare sent document-retention letters to Giuliani and the right-wing media organizations Fox News, Newsmax, and One America News. He previously told Insider that the company was weighing defamation lawsuits against them as well.

The lawsuit also outlines how Powell raised money from her media tour peddling her conspiracy theory through a corporate vehicle called "Defending the Republic," also named as a party in the lawsuit.

"Powell willfully made them in the course of her business as a media figure, author, and attorney because she could derive — and did in fact derive — both direct and indirect financial benefits from making those false statements," the lawsuit said.

Actual malice

To succeed in a defamation lawsuit, plaintiffs like Dominion must show that defendants like Powell were acting with "actual malice," rather than sincerely believing their falsehoods.

To clear this hurdle, Clare said Friday, the lawsuit points to Powell's ignoring Dominion's demands for retraction.

"Heard they wrote me too! Haven't seen it but retracting nothing We have #evidence. They are #fraud masters!" Powell tweeted on December 20, responding to a tweet from Lin Wood, a Trump elector and fellow attorney and conspiracy theorist. Wood was banned from Twitter after falsely alleging that Chief Justice John Roberts was involved in a pedophile ring and calling for Vice President Mike Pence to be executed.

"It is hard to imagine better evidence of reckless disregard to the truth," Clare said.


Clare also said that Powell continued to push her conspiracy theory even when she was contradicted by evidence, that she falsified court filings, and that she misrepresented the qualifications of her sources.

"She continued to make those same discredited statements over and over and over again, in the face of all of that hard evidence," Clare said. "She concealed and misrepresented who her sources actually were, as well as their qualifications. She relied on sources with a track record of spreading false statements and spreading conspiracy theories."

The lawsuit points to an exhibit Powell filed in her federal lawsuit in Georgia. She said that Dominion did not have up-to-date certification in the state. In fact, the exhibit had cropped out the certification date, which was recent.


Dominion lawsuit

Jan Jacobowitz, a former University of Miami law professor and expert on legal ethics, previously told Insider that Powell could be disbarred or face other court sanctions if she was found to have falsified documents in her lawsuits. The city of Detroit, following the failure of Powell's Michigan lawsuit, has already referred her for disbarment.

Dominion's lawsuit outlines the dubious sources Powell cited in her lawsuits. One is "Spider" (Powell sometimes spelled the name as "Spyder"), who claimed to be a "military intelligence expert." Powell retracted his name from exhibits but erroneously included it in the metadata. The Washington Post spoke to him and found that he vastly misrepresented his qualifications.

A source whom Powell described as a "Venezuelan military officer" was identified by The Associated Press as Leamsy Salazar. Dominion's lawsuit describes Salazar's claims as false on their face.

"If Salazar is now a pure-hearted whistleblower with the best interests of American democracy at heart, why did he wait more than five years after arriving in the United States — until after Trump had lost the presidential election — to tell anyone that U.S. elections were being rigged through the use of decades-old Venezuelan vote-flipping software," the lawsuit says.

Other affiants Powell relied on in her lawsuits, Dominion said, are "conspiracy theorists, con artists, and other facially unreliable sources as experts."

The lawsuit cites evidence that one lied about their military career and that another lied about being a doctor and used money raised for charity for personal gain. Yet another purported to show fraud by citing a county that does not exist. And one pushed anti-Semitic conspiracy theories claiming that George Soros helped give rise to Nazi Germany in the 1930s. (Soros is Jewish and was born in 1930.)

"Lies were told about government election officials, elections workers, and Dominion Voting Systems," Dominion CEO John Poulos said Friday. "Those lies have consequences. They have served to diminish the credibility of U.S. elections. They have subjected officials and Dominion employees to harassment and death threats. And they have severely damaged the reputation of our company."

Ackks...

I hear you, but I will never vote republican again. In Ohio (where I am), the republicans in power now are not going to survive their next election. Portman has no support, Brown is a dem, DeWine and his cabinet are beyond saving.

Ohio will not be red again for a while I believe.

To add... Ohio voted for Trump, not the republican party.

quote:

realize how foolish it is to start a 3rd party.

I know how foolish it is to keep voting in the same people over and over while expecting different results.

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
I do believe Dominion is bluffing. This will be interesting.

Dominion Voting Systems files $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit against pro-Trump election attorney Sidney Powell

Could get interesting as that would open them up for discovery, no?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

realize how foolish it is to start a 3rd party.

I know how foolish it is to keep voting in the same people over and over while expecting different results.

Agree, but if we have the numbers to win 3rd party, then we have the numbers to take back the GOP in primaries. If will be a lot easier and we won't lose the voters who pull the GOP lever no matter what.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:

Honestly, I think a third “Trump” party would just split off Republican voters, and ensure the Democrats always win. Bad idea IMHO.

Good. Split the GOP. They're worthless in their current state and have been for a long time now.

If wrecking the GOP is what it takes to build something better in it's place then so be it. If part of that process means the Dems gain more power for a while in the process, then so be it. It's the cost of doing business. We can and will make up that ground as we push forward.

We can do this with strong, viable, capable leadership. I'm not in that position, but Trump is. He's already proven it.

There's lots of talk of taking up arms and revolution and such. That's fantasy. We are not shooting our way out of this into something better.

We win this through the processes of civil discourse. Education and messaging. The courts. Local and state elections. Getting involved in the process. The guiding principles and our God given rights under the Constitution.

But if anyone thinks this is going to be easy or fun or quick is fooling themselves.

If you think there won't be negative or potentially serious ramifications or consequences to taking on this task you are fooling yourself.

This is a fight worth taking on and sacrificing for.

What other alternative do we really have?

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

quote:

Originally posted by sigalert:
I do believe Dominion is bluffing. This will be interesting.

Dominion Voting Systems files $1.3 billion defamation lawsuit against pro-Trump election attorney Sidney Powell

Could get interesting as that would open them up for discovery, no?

And, maybe a nice "class" counter suit as well for stealing our votes.

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
Highroundcount...

I am basing my theories on the UK and Israel.

Look at how they have to maneuver and form alliances. Unlike those systems though, the president or prime minister would not change here in the US when alliances break down.

They would have to court us on each and every issue.

To add... I do not think we have time to do this before this turns into some form of armed conflict however. I am trying though to find a non-violent solution that I could live with.

I want nothing to do with a Parliamentary system in this country. I'll take a two party system over that every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

For the first time in my life, I have re registered as unaffiliated. I had been a registered republican for the last 48 years.

The Republican party is the the other side of the same coin.

The Democrat party has been dead to me all my life and still is.
The GOP is also dead to me.

pelosi is demanding that President Trump be denied access to the nuclear codes now. she must be afraid he's going to drain her swamp in one swoop.

https://www.bloombergquint.com...p-from-nuclear-codes

and obiden is pushing for the President to step down now or be impeached. sounds like extortion.

https://nationalinterest.org/f...ps-impeachment-87091

this will bring a peaceful 'transfer of power'.

Halze... was not suggesting a parliamentary system. Just providing an example of what it would look like without a majority party.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wow, they seem awfully afraid of somebody who is supposed to be 'defeated.'

Almost like they are afraid of what might happen in the next 11 days.

They aren't grandstanding about the 'violent riots/terrorists' at the Capitol as I expected - they are doing everything they can to attack the President.

This is a good sign. The dems are still TERRIFIED of President Trump and what he might be able to accomplish.