That was an excellent essay, monkey. I'm a firm believer in Hanlon's Razer ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately
explained by stupidity").

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Shugart:
That was an excellent essay, monkey. I'm a firm believer in Hanlon's Razer ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately
explained by stupidity").

And the Roberts corollary is ‘Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice.’

Hanlon was both right and wrong

The video 41 posted has nothing to do with conspiracy theories except for the sensationalist title designed to get clicks. There were in fact three people that pulled triggers at that event: the shooter, the SWAT guy, and the SS counter sniper. There’s hundreds of videos from people that were at the rally and the live TV feeds that support the number of shots fired. Those 10 shots have all been accounted for.

I don't see how anyone can conclude – with certainty – that the assassination attempt was the product of either stupidity or conspiracy.

If it was all the result of stupidity, the "stupidities" are almost perfectly timed and choreographed. Only an amazing – or miraculous – happenstance caused failure. Conspiracies do happen.

But if it was conspiracy, why did they put together a plan that contained so many loose ends – especially a shooter who walked around the venue holding a rangefinder, and who could be so easily seen on the rooftop? If it was planned by the Secret Service or the FBI, why did they pass up a perfect venue like the Bronx where there were innumerable windows in surrounding buildings for a hidden shooter?

To me these are all open questions that leave the assassination attempt unresolved. But I am especially puzzled by those who rule out "conspiracy" apparently on the basis that conspiracies never actually happen.

They do.

I'm willing to believe this kid had a FED (probably FBI) informant egging him on like damn near every other "terrorist plot" in the last decade, with the intention of nabbing him at the rally and then congratulating themselves for foiling the plot they created.

Just like the MI Governor kidnapping "plot", which luckily was exposed for what it really was at trial.

BUT, the massive incompetence of the SS due to the INTENTIONAL withholding of assets and substitution of untrained DHS personnel failed to nab the perp before he fired a few shots.

The FBI probably assumed that there was absolutely zero chance of this idiot kid actually getting as far as he did, because the SS surely would interdict long before he could fire a shot.

And that's why everything is being slow walked. They know they egged this kid on, they know they amped him up to shoot Trump, but they ASSUMED the SS would catch him easily before he did anything. The FBI is complicit in a CAPITAL PUNISHMENT offense. The SS is grossly incompetent, which SHOULD but be a capital offense, but isn't.

My opinion based on all available info up to this point. I may be wrong, but I think this is VERY close to what really happened.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
So much horseshit.

The most likely and truthful reality is that the SS (Secret Service) was degraded by DEI and "Woke" bullshit.

The lack of effective comms and integration with SS, Sheriff, local Police and "SWAT" type left a great deal of "holes" in the "swiss Cheese" model of "shit that goes badly".

Good essay. I largely agree.

However, I don't think it's a bad thing or "horseshit" to have an interest in what happened or to follow the evidence, whatever it may be and wherever it may lead, in an attempt to learn the truth.

This was a VERY BIG DEAL. If successful, this assassination attempt would have completely changed the course of history.

The USSS and the FBI are conducting their own investigations, but they aren't saying much. I can't fault those who demand more information (such as Senator Josh Hawley) or those who attempt to independently seek more information in search of truth.

What we've learned over many years is that people lie, in and out of government, and that the FBI in particular has been full of people who have been more motivated politically than they have been by truth. In short, the “Federal Bureau of Investigation” has not been faithful to its own motto: “Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity”.

A "conspiracy theory" is a belief or assertion that someone did not act alone, that they had help or assistance in some capacity. You don't have to have a conspiracy theory to believe that we are entitled to the truth and seeking more information is the only way to discern truth from falsehood.

Read my post.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

The most likely and truthful reality is that the SS (Secret Service) was degraded by DEI and "Woke" bullshit.

The lack of effective comms and integration with SS, Sheriff, local Police and "SWAT" type left a great deal of "holes" in the "swiss Cheese" model of "shit that goes badly". The ad the "DHS people augmenting the SS Detail, with lack of training, understanding of mission, and capability to perform as required when the SHTF.

This seems to me the most likely explanation for why and how it happened as it did. But maybe the lack of training and coordination was compounded with, just spitballing here, a diminished desire to protect the particular individual to whom they were assigned? Perhaps they were indeed being as professional as they could possibly be, but their hearts were just not in it? Subsequent reaction from many involved seems to bear this out.

Unexplored in any of the possibilities I have read is the question of why the shooter thought he had a chance of getting away with it. I suspect this lurking suspicion is in the back of the minds of most conspiracy theorists. viz: "The kid did not seem nearly competent enough to be reasonably confident of pulling off his 'mission,' therefore he had to have help." I am willing to accept that maybe he just "got lucky," and found the holes in the Swiss cheese like water finds a drain.

Another relevant aspect of the whole "conspiracy theory" thought train is the apparent lack of interest in the press as to following up on the "investigation" (however that is proceeding). The lack of coverage and emerging information is stunning, how often has it been that investigations into serious matters have this few "leaks?" Of course, the MSM is not interested in reporting anything that might be favorable to PDJT, but they have to understand that their reticence is a large part of the persistence of suspicions.

Asking questions is easy, but it is the answers that matter. I apologize for adding to the haze, but until we have real, believable answers, questions are what we have left.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: architect,

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
I may be wrong...

You are wrong. I won't even bother going into the reasons why.

The truth is so very boring.

quote:

The USSS and the FBI are conducting their own investigations, but they aren't saying much.

I mean, if you were "investigating" yourself, which is especially the case with the USSS. Shrugs...

Don't forget the current "acting director" was likely the person that refused increased USSS staffing requests from the Trump campaign. And realistically, who here has all that much confidence in the FBI? Seriously.

Some people just can't accept the banality of evil, and the abundance of stupidity. These two things make secret, highly organized and well planned conspiracies highly unlikely, and quite unnecessary.
The abundance of stupidity makes it almost certain that no real, secret conspiracy could ever be successfully pulled off, and the banality of evil disguises malicious intent.
Practically all things thought to be conspiritorial are done in the open, in full view of the population. It's done and mostly accepted, until it's a normal part of politics and life.

quote:

Some people just can't accept the banality of evil,...

I'm not sure if I'm one of those people or not...

Hannah Arendt's challenge to Adolf Eichmann

In her treatise on the banality of evil, Arendt demanded a rethink of established ideas about moral responsibility

Fifty years ago the writer and philosopher Hannah Arendt witnessed the end of the trial of Adolf Eichmann, one of the major figures in the organisation of the Holocaust. Covering the trial Arendt coined the phrase "the banality of evil", a phrase that has since become something of an intellectual cliche. But what did she really mean?

There were at least two challenges to legal judgment that she underscored, and then another to moral philosophy more generally. The first problem is that of legal intention. Did the courts have to prove that Eichmann intended to commit genocide in order to be convicted of the crime? Her argument was that Eichmann may well have lacked "intentions" insofar as he failed to think about the crime he was committing. She did not think he acted without conscious activity, but she insisted that the term "thinking" had to be reserved for a more reflective mode of rationality.

Arendt wondered whether a new kind of historical subject had become possible with national socialism, one in which humans implemented policy, but no longer had "intentions" in any usual sense. To have "intentions" in her view was to think reflectively about one's own action as a political being, whose own life and thinking is bound up with the life and thinking of others. So, in this first instance, she feared that what had become "banal" was non-thinking itself. This fact was not banal at all, but unprecedented, shocking, and wrong.

https://www.theguardian.com/co...ann-banality-of-evil

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
The abundance of stupidity ....

The thing I always notice in the claims that incidents like this must have been due to a secret conspiracy is the massive disconnect between the (literally) incredible efforts and coordination that made the shooting possible and the simple stuff that would have ensured its success.

Again, I’m not going to post my guidance on how to be a successful long range assassin, but what is necessary is obvious to anyone with the most basic knowledge of the art and science of precision rifle shooting. If someone put the murderer up to the act and was able to pull off all the other incredibly complex and chancy things that made it possible to for him to get into a prone position with a high-powered rifle less than 160 yards from his target, why in the ever-lovin’, blue-eyed world wouldn’t they have also ensured the few other things that would have made it virtually impossible for the killer to fail to hit his target with a lethal shot‽

This is the only graphic I’ve run across that shows not only the position of the killer and DJT, but also shows the positions of the three other people hit by gunfire. The killer fired very rapidly and obviously wildly with what appears to my eye to be a run of the mill AR with a small nonmagnifying optical sight. In addition to hitting his evident target, he hit three people in crowded bleachers at distances I estimate to be nearly 100 yards from each other. Just like another famous assassin who missed an entire car at less than 100 yards with one shot, who knows where this guy’s other four shots went. If I were going to go to the expense, trouble, and risk of trying to pull something like this off, I’d dam’ well make sure it would be successful at trigger pull time, and not result in ineffective shots being scattered all over the landscape.

^^^^^
That “sloping roof” that the assassin was on had a damned shallow slope. The LE guys were afraid of the slope?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
If someone put the murderer up to the act and was able to pull off all the other incredibly complex and chancy things that made it possible to for him to get into a prone position with a high-powered rifle less than 160 yards from his target, why in the ever-lovin’, blue-eyed world wouldn’t they have also ensured the few other things that would have made it virtually impossible for the killer to fail to hit his target with a lethal shot‽

But you see, he’s the patsy so the real assassin could take the shot and escape unnoticed. That should be a movie. They could get someone like Mark Wahlberg to play the shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
^^^^^
That “sloping roof” that the assassin was on had a damned shallow slope. The LE guys were afraid of the slope?

No. Nobody was afraid of the roof. They just weren't there. The "It's a steep roof, and that's why we weren't there" was the best the former Director (and whichever Special Assistant to the Deputy Director Assisting the Director with Directorial Directing was tasked with briefing the Director) could blurt out when under the hot lights and magnifying glass.

When any government effort fails miserably, I generally assume it's because of the horrific level of incompetence generally baked into the effort. I say that as a happily retired Fed.

Trump campaign has been hacked.

"The Trump campaign has confirmed that internal communications have been hacked and leaked to the media.

The campaign confirmed the cybercrime after Politico received a series of stolen documents on Saturday.

Trump’s team believes Iran may have been behind the hack but has not released any information on the perpetrator."

Politico has been receiving private campaign internal documents thru emails sent from an anonymous account, including a vetting dossier in regards to JD Vance.

Me, I tend to think instead of "Iranians, it is the DOJ or FBI.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.c...l-docs-leaked-media/

Sounds like our government at work.

Do Perkins Coie contractors still have access to Sentinel for DNC opposition research? It came out during Crossfire Hurricane that someone at DOJ had approved the installation of high side SCIF on site for certain clients (The DNC) to use.

The DNC has also used insiders at DOJ to file bogus FISA applications to spy on Trump and his campaign in the past. But I also wouldn't rule out a staffer with access leaking the emails, as opposed to an actual data breach.

This really is an ugly business, and the procession of dirty tricks against Trump is neverending. My guess is that there really aren't many salacious bits to the emails. The media would have leaked those right away.

So, just one possible bad (very bad?) and/or nefarious outcome here 'could' be that altered or fake/fabricated documents might be circulated in or by the 'media', as well as on Social Media, containing false/damaging info to undermine DJT & the Trump Campaign without any basis in fact whatsoever. Kinda like the Steele Dossier...