quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Well, OK, you're the boss so I won't use the term "vax" on this forum.

Well, that's just fucking peachy, man.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1: They changed the definition of the word vaccine to try to call it a vaccine, but it's not a vaccine. The term "mystery juice" is more accurate.

IMO: It really depends on what they find with the third dose boosters in Israel. If it takes that third dose to get to the point where it prevents infection/transmission for at least several years, I'm OK with the term. If it turns out to be a semi-annual dose to keep you out of the hospital, it's more like a medium-term prophylactic treatment. We'll see.

If you actually believe that a third dose will accomplish that, I have a bridge to sell you. And comparing the polio vaccine to a coronavirus vaccine is apples to oranges.

MNSIG, I have respect for your position, and what you do. However, there is nothing but the word of charlatans to suggest these “vaccines” will ever deliver as promised. We were promised 95% efficacy in the beginning. When it became apparent that was a failure, they started trotting out talk of boosters, but with disclaimers that they may or may not work with “variants”. Variants we have yet to see solid science that they’ve isolated. If they had a test for specific “variants” we would NEVER hear the end of how they are going to save the world with updated vaccines for these “variants”. The science is flawed, the response has been flawed, the restrictions such as mask requirements are clearly flawed. This is a coronavirus; there has never been a successful vaccine for the bug that causes the common cold. My non-medical opinion is that we never will.

If we can’t even develop a flu vaccine that 6 months after development and release won’t give you full immunity due to mutations, we won’t be doing the same for a virus type that arguably mutates far faster.

I think Alan has captured the current fear & frustration of the public in response to the forcing of experimental vaccines on us.

I wish Novavax would stop standing on their dick regarding FDA emergency use approval. They have a traditional protein subunit immunogen type vaccine (you are injected with a protein part of the virus, in this case the COVID "spike" protein) in development.

I think this will be much more palatable to people and could be more efficacious than the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines. Novavax finished their Phase III trial back in June with good results.

https://www.nih.gov/news-event...fe-prevents-covid-19

No I dont own stock in Novavax but I wish I did...

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Those traditional vaccines though at least have an established schedule. With these mRNA shots, they seem to be just flying by the seat of their asses.

"oh wait, it's not two. It's three now. No wait, four. Ok ok, it's actually five shots one needs. Never mind, just take it every six months."

No one has a damned clue how many shots of this mRNA shot is actually needed at this point. What we do know though is this covid jab doesn't do at all what it was originally PROMISED to do.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
MNSIG, I have respect for your position, and what you do. However, there is nothing but the word of charlatans to suggest these “vaccines” will ever deliver as promised.

Thanks.

I'd actually be quite surprised if the study in Israel shows long term immunity. My WAG is that it will end up being a "close enough" annual vaccine, much like influenza. I'm definitely not in the mandatory vaccine camp and agree that most of the government response to this has been way over the top.

quote:

I'm definitely not in the mandatory vaccine camp and agree that most of the government response to this has been way over the top.

Yeah... that's the thing, isn't it?
I was hesitant previously. I was hesitant for the same reason I don’t buy the first year of a new car model. I like to find out something about the track record before I buy into something. Now that I know more I’m no longer just hesitant. I’m resistant.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Many of the traditional vaccines require 3-4 doses over the course of months to years for full effect.

Oh? Which "traditional" vaccines would those be?

Didn't the "childhood" vaccines require one or more booster shots??

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
And comparing the polio vaccine to a coronavirus vaccine is apples to oranges.

A-freaking-MEN!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Many of the traditional vaccines require 3-4 doses over the course of months to years for full effect.

Oh? Which "traditional" vaccines would those be?

See the link that Gustofer posted. There are a bunch.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
MMR needed two, DTAP three injections. Many others require mulitple doses.

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Many of the traditional vaccines require 3-4 doses over the course of months to years for full effect.

Oh? Which "traditional" vaccines would those be?

Didn't the "childhood" vaccines require one or more booster shots??

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
And comparing the polio vaccine to a coronavirus vaccine is apples to oranges.

A-freaking-MEN!!!!!

I didn't compare the vaccines or the diseases, only pointed out that the full series for polio requires multiple doses over an extended time period.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
^^^^^^^^^^^^
MMR needed two, DTAP three injections. Many others require mulitple doses.

I was precipitous in posting that question. I since withdrew it. Apparently y'all are too fast for me

quote:

I wish Novavax would stop standing on their dick regarding FDA emergency use approval. They have a traditional protein subunit immunogen type vaccine (you are injected with a protein part of the virus, in this case the COVID "spike" protein) in development.

I think this will be much more palatable to people and could be more efficacious than the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines. Novavax finished their Phase III trial back in June with good results.

I agree. From what I'm hearing/reading I may be willing to take this one.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I wish Novavax would stop standing on their dick regarding FDA emergency use approval. They have a traditional protein subunit immunogen type vaccine (you are injected with a protein part of the virus, in this case the COVID "spike" protein) in development.

I think this will be much more palatable to people and could be more efficacious than the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines. Novavax finished their Phase III trial back in June with good results.

I agree. From what I'm hearing/reading I may be willing to take this one.

And yet, looking at all the stats on this virus we have available to us, I still appear to have less than a .2% chance of succumbing to it, so I see no reason whatsoever to play chase the variant/vaccine. Natural immunity costs me nothing and presents no long term complications. However, this vaccine 'might' be a better option for my 80+ year old parents.

Propaganda. They know damn well a lot of people will be forced to take the vaccine or lose everything.

Despite Mandates, Biden Commerce Secretary Claims "Nobody Is Being Forced" To Take COVID Vaccine



https://www.zerohedge.com/poli...d-take-covid-vaccine

The pair seriously suggested that anyone who doesn’t want to or can’t get vaccinated can simply stay at home and never go outside.

“There’s always been a choice: If you do not want to get vaccinated, you can work from home. You can homeschool your children. You can shop online,” Ruhle declared, adding “If you didn’t want to vaccinate your kids, you can homeschool, and people have done it for years.”

“We are not being forced,” Raimondo again claimed, stating “You can work from home, get tested on a weekly basis,” and adding “I think this is smart public policy and great leadership by the president.”

There you have it, if you don’t take the vaccine just stay at home and have no life, no one is forcing you. In fact, it’s a long standing American tradition.

And this is the point we've reached now in Alaska, rationed care. We have not herd specifics about how this is going to be implemented yet. On one hand it would be great if we could turn around bullshit cases at the door. On the other it's not going to be good for anyone that truly needs care to be denied.

https://www.alaskasnewssource....UAqmcZ8-S8atX5dqoIfU

Providence Alaska Medical Center begins rationing care as COVID-19 continues to surge

By Megan Pacer
Published: Sep. 14, 2021 at 5:29 PM AKDT|Updated: 11 hours ago
ANCHORAGE, Alaska (KTUU) - Providence Alaska Medical Center, the state’s largest hospital, has implemented crisis standards of care, which means treatment and resources for patients can be rationed, as COVID-19 continues to surge in Alaska.

A letter published Tuesday on behalf of the hospital’s Medical Executive Committee confirmed that crisis standards of care are being implemented within the hospital.

“In short, we are faced with a situation in which we must prioritize scarce resources and treatments to those patients who have the potential to benefit most,” wrote Dr. Kristen Solana Walkinshaw, Providence chief of staff, in the letter.

Providence spokesperson Mikal Canfield confirmed in an official statement from the hospital that crisis standards of care and treatment prioritization are occurring in Providence. According to the statement, demands on acute care within Providence and other Alaska hospitals are exceeding capacity limits and forcing providers to make “difficult choices regarding allocation of specific life-sustaining treatments or resources and regarding patient transfers to higher levels of care.”

“As a result of this situation, providers and health care facilities are currently experiencing limitations in their ability to provide the standard of care that we wish to provide to our community and normally expect to provide,” the statement reads. “This situation may persist for some time, which has required us to use processes developed to ensure the most equitable allocation of limited resources.”

Rationing of care is already happening in medical facilities in the Lower 48, perhaps most notably in states like Idaho. Last week, Alaska State Hospitals and Nursing Homes Association president and CEO Jared Kosin called the idea of rationing care in Alaska “unnerving” and “almost incomprehensible” as the state continued to see record numbers of people being hospitalized with COVID-19.

“We believe that this situation is primarily a result of the global pandemic and its effects on disease burden in the population as well as its impacts on healthcare workers and facilities,” the official statement from Providence says about the crisis standards of care being implemented.

According to the letter published on behalf of the Medical Executive Committee, more than 30% of the adult patients hospitalized at Providence right now are COVID-positive.

“While we are doing our utmost, we are no longer able to provide the standard of care to each and every patient who needs our help,” the letter reads. “The acuity and number of patients now exceeds our resources and our ability to staff beds with skilled caregivers, like nurses and respiratory therapists.”

Last Thursday, the state’s hospital system was officially raised to the high alert level for the first time since the pandemic made its way to Alaska. As Anchorage hospitals remain full and other, more rural facilities begin to fill up as well, health care workers are encountering difficulty transferring patients in need throughout the system.

The current surge of COVID-19 in Alaska shows little signs of slowing, driven largely by the highly contagious delta variant. On Tuesday, the state’s hospital data dashboard showed that as of Monday, there were at least 202 people being hospitalized with COVID-19 statewide. That’s soared from just 19 people who were hospitalized with COVID-19 at the beginning of July.

The hospital dashboard shows that as of Monday, there were 23 adult ICU beds left open statewide, and just four left open in Anchorage.

Dozens of medical professionals attended Tuesday night’s meeting of the Anchorage Assembly. Several of them spoke, including Solana Walkinshaw, who wrote the letter on behalf of Providence’s Medical Executive Committee.

“ ... The bottom line is this weekend, we initiated our crisis care mode,” Solana Walkinshaw said. “And we had to begin rationing care. That’s the bottom line. We had to make decisions based on our post crises care policies to serve rationing care. I’m going say it one more time, we had to ration care.”

“The reason we are here, and I’m actually working at the hospital this very moment. I’m here outside of my usual time at the hospital, to tell you, it is not good for all of you, for our entire community, not just COVID patients.” said Dr. Leslie Gonsette, also from Providence. “We have to have everyone realize that isn’t just the unvaccinated. This is your child getting in a car wreck, this is you going to work and getting run over on your bike, you will not get the care that you deserve.”

Dr. Michael Savitt, the chief medical officer for the Anchorage Health Department defended the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommendations of non-pharmacological mitigation recommendations, but went on to say that the effectiveness of face coverings and masks depends on what they’re made of and how ventilated a room is.

In a Tuesday night press release, Mayor Dave Bronson reiterated that he does not plan to institute COVID-19 mitigation measures, such as mask requirements, in Anchorage.

However, members of the assembly passed a resolution during Tuesday’s meeting that requests that Bronson makes face covering mandatory while inside municipal buildings, when the city is in “substantial risk” or high alert when it comes to the spread of COVID-19. The resolution passed 8-3, with the three no votes coming from assembly members Jamie Allard, John Weddleton and Crystal Kennedy.

Assembly member Kameron Perez-Verdia said the resolution is not a requirement, but simply a communication tool between the assembly and the mayor’s administration.

“It is not a requirement... it’s simply a request,” Perez-Verdia said. “So I think it should be taken from that perspective, that if this body approves this, that it’s a request to the mayor and he can choose to do it or not.”

“I think the biggest hurdle, if you will, that we have to overcome if we’re trying to convince people that a mask mandate will stop COVID,” Kennedy said during the meeting. “We really don’t have the data that will do that. I am absolutely going to wear my mask when I feel like I really need to ... But I can’t go and tell somebody that wearing a mask will prevent COVID-19 because it just, it just won’t.”

Editor’s note: This article has been updated with additional information.

Copyright 2021 KTUU. All rights reserved.

Rationing care, is that similar to giving zero fucks?

Donald Trump gave unprecedented resources to New York State and other hot spots during the first wave, including Navy hospital ships.
Joe Biden's only solution is to forcibly vaccinate the whole country when that strategy is already failing in Israel. Biden has said he has lost patience with the American people. He has no help and he has no answers.

It is the American peoples fault and problem.

Exact opposite of President Donald Trump.

What needs to be revisited is the extremely low rate of transmission in central Africa- a part of the world not especially known for adherence to commonly held medical practices such as social distancing or plastering masks on faces. Ask yourself this- why, of all places, are Covid infection rates so low? What is the common denominator? You dig deeply enough, I think you’ll find almost no Covid vaccination, but a lot of preventative ivermectin usage for parasite control. Prepare yourself for a lot of racist comments about ignorant people taking horse dewormer, despite the drug being prescribed for decades for people.

Vaccinated woman's family who died of COVID blames unvaccinated in obituary
'She was vaccinated but was infected by others who chose not to be,' her family said



The Illinois family of a vaccinated woman who died of COVID-19 says her death could have been avoided if more people were vaccinated.

Candace Kay Ayers, 66, died September 3 at St. John’s Hospital in Springfield, Illinois, according to her obituary.

Ayers was fully vaccinated in the spring but she got diagnosed with COVID-19 on July 28, her family told the State Journal-Register.

Ayers’ family is heartbroken over her death and they wanted to send a message to those who were still hesitant about taking the vaccine.

"She was preceded in death by more than 4,531,799 others infected with COVID-19," her family wrote. "She was vaccinated but was infected by others who chose not to be. The cost was her life."

Ayers’ 36-year-old son, Marc, confirmed the family's position in an interview with Fox News.

"We want to hold every segment of the population accountable and responsible for where we're at today," he said.

Marc said he’s gotten messages of support while also receiving plenty of messages filled with hate from those who blame his mother for her own death.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/vac...nvaccinated-obituary

TV advertisements are constantly driving home the message that COVID vaccines are safe and effective against COVID 19 and variants. I hear it constantly.

Yet vaccinated people are getting infected.

How is this if they are effective?

Is that like GM saying your new Malibu is extremely reliable, even though it only starts half the time and stops running for no reason?