quote:

Originally posted by lastmanstanding:

quote:

If they really intend take us down more than a few pegs, an EMP attack might be the modern Pearl Harbor.

Then Bejing and Hong Kong quickly become the next Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be my guess. Don't think Trump is in the mood to exchange military barbs with China right now.

We wouldn't nuke cities unless there's an all out attack on us. If they do a limited targeted attack on one or more of our ships, our response will probably be to destroy every man-made island in the South China Sea since they are military zones. We've objected to them repeatedly and have continued to sail our ships through the area to negate their expanded territorial claim.

China start a war? Why? For what reason

Land?...they have plenty

Power?...they have plenty of that too.

Ideology?...maybe, but I think they are quite happy with their mix of communism/capitalism.

No... no giant world wars any time soon. The wars to be fought will be economic and through cyber.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Since you have been very prolific in this thread, I am asking what you believe needs to be the "new norm/acceptable" behaviors of people.

Employ reasonable hygiene, keep hands away from face, possibly drop the handshake? Sick people, who know they're sick, stay home, rather than going about spreading diseases? The same things that would prevent perhaps millions of sicknesses and thousands of deaths every year, even absent SARS-CoV-2? Perhaps masking-up during the height of a "disease season?" (Though there seems to be some question as to the efficacy of that.)

I fairly certain I've mentioned the above at least a couple times in the course of my prolificity. As well as cited numerous examples of my observations of people not doing those things now and for as long as I've been paying attention.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
And if people do not abide by the "new behaviors", what is acceptable and expected enforcement, laws, and such in order to meet the "controls" you believe to be the status quo in the "new normal" world.

I've never said, never so much as suggested, such a thing as a "health Gestapo." You should know better than to try a straw man with me. What I'm talking about, what I've talked about before, is people exhibiting a bit of good judgement and consideration for others.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I am weary of all the pussyfooting around that some seem to be doing.

Again: I've no idea what you're on about. I have been clear, lucidly clear, from Day 1, in my opinion that if people practiced reasonable hygiene and kept themselves out of the public when sick, there'd be a lot less need for all this enforced social distancing when a pandemic like we currently have hits.

It's the exact same argument I make in the annual "flu shot" thread and why my wife and I have found we can do without them.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I get it that some folks are afraid to die, ...

Another straw man. As I've stated numerous times: It's not about deaths. It's about preventing our health care system being overwhelmed by an extreme, rapid spike in Covid-19 cases.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
In the past three months, the damage done by man has far exceeded anything this virus has done.

I have no idea what this has to do with anything.

Are you well? This seems unlike you.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
A pretty sobering article here, I think this is the gist of it though:



Why Flattening The Curve Is Overrated

quote:

Big Point #2 – At What Cost?

...
The minute we lift quarantine measures, the second wave begins. Eventually the third wave. Or a fourth.

Precisely the point I made in answer to Rightwire. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this one out.

Doesn't necessarily have to be this way, but it probably will. Unless people learn to change their ways.

The citizens of Hong Kong get it: Hong Kong Shutdown a Lesson to the World in Halting Virus

Note the "social pressure" aspect.

ETA: Another example, like I've done before.

One of my best friends has a large family. My wife and I are considered to be part of the family. They have regular gatherings, to which we're nearly always invited.

Problem is: At nearly every one of those gatherings somebody shows up sick. If not an adult, then one or more of the hordes of children. This is why we recently skipped that best friend's birthday party.

Somebody please explain to me why it's socially acceptable to show up at such gatherings sick? Where you're almost certainly going to spread your disease germs, causing other attendees to fall sick?

I do not understand it. Never have.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
China start a war? Why? For what reason

Land?...they have plenty

Power?...they have plenty of that too.

Ideology?...maybe, but I think they are quite happy with their mix of communism/capitalism.

No... no giant world wars any time soon. The wars to be fought will be economic and through cyber.

While an actual war is possible, I don't think China would want to destroy us - they need our country to buy their goods to keep their own economy going.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
April 2, 2020
China Is Preparing to Start a War with America
By William L. Gensert

This is my conclusion as well.

See, I read that and came to a different conclusion. My conclusion was that the author is convinced he can read tea leaves better than anyone because he once saw a blurb about terrorist communications blips pre-9/11 and didn't play it right.

Neither side has anything to gain. China is playing the long economic game. Loans to third world countries, massive PR, getting woven into global infrastructure, trying to build up some possibility of defending their coast against the worlds greatest Navy, in case things drop in the pot. The US is on top, playing defense. Meanwhile we are a huge customer of theirs, and they are a large creditor of ours.

Why would either start a shooting war? Now, jostling with sharp elbows in international affairs, espionage, trying to get their spyware-encrusted tech woven into our communications? Sure, that makes sense from their perspective. I think that's all we can and should expect.

will be interesting to see if the overall death rate for this period actually DROPs due to the 'stay at home' nature of our response

less vehicles deaths
less crime / assaults (bar brawls / late nights assaults, etc)
less accidental / workplace deaths, etc

it's possible

-----------------------

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
China start a war? Why? For what reason
Land?...they have plenty
Power?...they have plenty of that too.
Ideology?...maybe, but I think they are quite happy with their mix of communism/capitalism.
No... no giant world wars any time soon. The wars to be fought will be economic and through cyber.

I agree... mostly. The wars to be fought will be primarily economic and through cyber. Spreading this disease (James Woods videos top of page 291), intentionally, through Chinese agents mixed into our population seems to be part of that. They have brought our economy to a grounding halt.

quote:

Power?...they have plenty of that too.

That part I have to disagree with. Yes, they have power but they clearly have a desire to dominate. The desire for power becomes an insatiable lust.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
will be interesting to see if the overall death rate for this period actually DROPs due to the 'stay at home' nature of our response

less vehicles deaths
less crime / assaults (bar brawls / late nights assaults, etc)
less accidental / workplace deaths, etc

it's possible

-----------------------

Everything will drop.

Particularly heart disease deaths, flu deaths, etc. because many of those who likely would've died from those causes may be counted as Wuhan deaths instead if they happen to contract that disease.

Dang.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

Everything will drop.

Particularly heart disease deaths, flu deaths, etc. because many of those who likely would've died from those causes may be counted as Wuhan deaths instead if they happen to contract that disease.

^^^^This^^^^

So are they confiscating private property to distribute to the hospitals now?
From each according to his abilities to each according to their needs.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

Employ reasonable hygiene, keep hands away from face, possibly drop the handshake? Sick people, who know they're sick, stay home, rather than going about spreading diseases? The same things that would prevent perhaps millions of sicknesses and thousands of deaths every year, even absent SARS-CoV-2? Perhaps masking-up during the height of a "disease season?"

I have been an advocate of this for many years. When I get sick, I go to the Doctor, get a script and I ask for masks, and they give me a half dozen to use during sickness. During these times I work from home, and when I go out into public I mask up, carry sanitizer, and am extremely careful as to not get other people sick. I do this because I loathe when sick people say IDGAF and come to work or go out in public and get everyone sick.

Sadly, I'm in the overwhelming minority of this practice here. We'd need hardcore training of all Americans to change our society. People just don't give a fuck. I've posted multiple threads in the rant section about people pulling this shit at work, coming in coughing, hacking, sneezing up the place with no regard for anyone else. Their excuse is they don't want to burn their PTO time as sick time. Our PTO is combined so that your vacation days and sick days are in the same pool. But every manager I know of will let you work from home if you are sick so I don't get it. We need to take lessons from the Japanese regarding sickness. They mask up when they are even potentially sick.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Dang.

They even clarified in a presser they meant they were going after companies not individuals hoarding. This is a very slippery slope, whats next?

I don't see China starting a war with us, but instead, as Tucker Carlson stated in a monologue last night, waiting for our economy to be greatly weakened by massive unemployment and a decimated GDP. That, combined with the lies from by the ChiComs, echoed by their Marxist media allies here, that they got the virus under control and we did not, will serve to knock us down a peg and make them the dominant world power. The don't want to destroy us, they want to make us a vassal state. MacArthur should have been given the green light on China in 1951.

quote:

Originally posted by David W:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Dang.

They even clarified in a presser they meant they were going after companies not individuals hoarding. This is a very slippery slope, whats next?

Part of the Defense Protection Act...not a slippery slope.


The whole story is here...and they will get paid fair market value for the items...again, in accordance with the DPA.

Article here: ARTICLE<<<<

China isn't going to start a shooting or EMP war, regardless of what the tinfoil hat wearers think.

But even if they did, we won't nuke them (unless they start it with nukes first).

What would we do? We'd sink every Chinese flagged ship on the high sea. We'd sink their submarines, we'd stop their economy dead in it's tracks. Without shipping, all of their production capacity means jack shit. Sure they can fly things out, but that wouldn't matter.

How would we do this? Just look at what was our main weapon in WW2? The submarine and there is a reason most of ours are in the Pacific.

Ensigmatic, in response to your last post where you said:

"I've never said, never so much as suggested, such a thing as a "health Gestapo." You should know better than to try a straw man with me. What I'm talking about, what I've talked about before, is people exhibiting a bit of good judgement and consideration for others."

These type of idealistic arguments are hard to understand as they suggest a total lack of understanding of our demographics to the point of being nonsensical. We live in a country with over 300M people with a huge range of educational, socioeconomic and cultural realities. How exactly would we ever voluntarily arrive at an agreement on what good judgement is much less have any decent portion of the population possess the self disciple to practice it.

So when you say, "people exhibiting a bit of good judgement and consideration for other." Which people are you talking about specifically? What portion of the population, in your estimation, would need to get onboard to have any impact?

Why would China want to start a war with the people they rely on to buy all their shit to keep their own economy alive and who owes them billions and billions of dollars?

Not going to happen.

Dear China,

Well done. This is definitely "flattening the curve"!

(Sarcasm intended)

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

In the past three months, the damage done by man has far exceeded anything this virus has done.
taking the exponential growth of damage of this virus vs the damage that will occur due to the actions of mankind, both continuing as they have been, I will tell you that man will still inflict a greater degree of misery and damage, far beyond this batshit bug. (of which, man brought about either by purposeful means or simply selfish behavior).

Please, prove me wrong.

You do not know how wrong I wish to be found on this.

I don’t think that it could be proven either way at this point. But the economic impact of “doing nothing” and just letting CV19 run its course is certainly not zero. According to this paper from 2007, the total annual economic impact of the flu in the US is $87 billion. If simply adjusted for inflation that is $108 billion in 2020.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/...ation/2007?amount=87

quote:

Based on 2003 US population, we estimated that annual influenza epidemics resulted in an average of 610,660 life-years lost (undiscounted), 3.1 million hospitalized days, and 31.4 million outpatient visits. Direct medical costs averaged $10.4 billion (95% confidence interval [C.I.], $4.1, $22.2) annually. Projected lost earnings due to illness and loss of life amounted to $16.3 billion (C.I., $8.7, $31.0) annually. The total economic burden of annual influenza epidemics using projected statistical life values amounted to $87.1 billion (C.I., $47.2, $149.5).

For the flu we have: Yearly vaccines, herd immunity, effective antivirals such as Tamiflu, excess hospital capacity, and significant historical data of how it spreads in the population. For CV19 we have none of those things as of today.

So if we let CV19 run wild in it's first ever year of human infection how bad will the economic impact be compared to the flu? 5 times, 10 times, 100 times worse? I certainly don’t know, but I think we can all agree it won’t be LESS than the flu. I am confident that the cost of aggressive intervention vs. cost of doing nothing is a trade that President Trump’s economic team is making every day.

There is also the future economic cost of the election too. If doing nothing hypothetically saves us $1 trillion but costs President Trump the 2020 election, what’s the future economic hit of putting Bernie or Joe in office?

President Trump wants to win, he wants to save the economy, and he wants to save American lives. His instincts throughout his presidency so far have been incredible. I trust he will maintain the right balance as well as anybody could given the circumstances.