Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
Tell me about one single War where winning over the locals actually worked, and helped us to win long-term. We really won over those locals in Japan, didn't we? And the Soviets did great winning hearts and minds in Germany if I recall. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
|
Political Cynic |
we spend a lot of money and effort to make these men fighting machines let them fight they way they need to that gets the job done I don't give a flying fuck about the enemy - if they're so worried about it, perhaps they should reconsider their career choice just kill them and move on to the next one [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
|
The Persian |
There are no single war examples, because until Vietnam things were more total war. But there are examples within conflicts since then. Early SF camps during the Vietnam war are a great example. There are lots of cases where local Afghan villages helping our troops after we actually attempted to get along. There are examples in Iraq as well. When fighting an insurgency the worst thing you can do it make the locals your enemy. And the easiest way to make them your enemy is to disrespect their traditions and beliefs. ------- A turbo: Exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens, and you go faster. Mr. Doom and Gloom "King in the north!" "Slow is smooth... and also slow. | |||
|
| Member |
How many acts of violence, even if they're justified can a man engage in before his mind goes into a dark place that he can't come back from? The violence should be restrained to what's necessary to overcome the enemy. This should be done if nothing else than for the mental health of the soldiers. No one's life, liberty or property is safe while the legislature is in session.- Mark Twain | |||
|
| Leatherneck |
I can't tell you a war we won but I am not sure how hard we have tried. Certainly desecrating bodies won't help our cause though. What I would say is that it is as important that we win the hearts and minds of the American public as it the people of the country we are fighting. Like it or not the average American citizen does not want to hear stories of our troops pissing on dead bodies or leading POWs around on a leash. While I personally don't give a shit about it, I am a realist and I know that it is hard to win a war when your own citizens are against it. “Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014 | |||
|
Cat Whisperer |
I only brought up sofrep to say that if they're talking about it there's likely some truth to the story, not because I agree with their take on it. Brandon and a lot of those guys seem way too liberal leaning or "faux-libertarian" for my liking. ------------------------------------ 135 ├┼┼╕ 246R | |||
|
| Go ahead punk, make my day |
You don't win a war by spending needless time and resources mutliating corpses and acting like a savage. You win by killing the enemy and stacking them like cordwood. I think most advocating that have never served. | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
I remember Webb being controversial, and drawing some hate amongst the brotherhood, the kind of thing which erodes credibility. I don't know the truth of any if this, of course. Link Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
| Member |
That's the problem, guys are getting a little too caught up in the extracurricular and not focusing on being a professional operator. I don't think anybody is going to besmirch the good work these guys do nor, question how they do it, however, their leadership is not putting those who step out of line in-check and making sure they don't go off the rails. Clearly, fellow teammates, guys with inside knowledge, are bringing this information to light via public media because such things are not being dealt with internally.
I've met Webb several times as well as a handful of his detractors. I don't know weather or, not the stories are embellished but, he does come across as a veteran who's figured out another career and a lot of guys who talk crap about him are either jealous of that or, think the field he's gone into is unbecoming of a former SEAL. In his words, he's trying to create a media resource that the larger media and public can turn to, for facts, information and insight into the SOF world without having to rely on recycled media 'military consultants' and flag officers who've last went out into the field over 20-years ago. | |||
|
| Member |
IDGAS, I just thank God that these men are on our side and they should be given Blanket Immunity. The stories presented here should not be in common knowledge and the people who released this info should be havin their ass kicked. Officers lives matter! | |||
|
| Political Cynic |
when we fight a war, we are always thinking if we kill just enough of them they will change their minds and become our friends thats why we keep losing kill the bastards, we don't need them as friends, nor do we want them as friends they're enemies for a reason [B] Against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC | |||
|
The Ayatollah of Rock 'n' Rollah |
Former Special Operations soldier John McPhee says it's true.  -Tom __________________________ "For the cause that lacks assistance/The wrong that needs resistance/For the Future in the distance/And the Good that I can do" - George Linnaeus Banks, "What I Live for" | |||
|
Sigforum K9 handler |
While he may say its true, anyone who has watched more than four minutes of any of his videos knows that he has a hard on for SEALs. He has a real hard time going more than a few minutes without hurling an insult at SEALs. So, forgive me if I just don't take his opinion highly. | |||
|
Semper Fi - 1775 |
I will add that I have watched his videos in the past and eventually lost interest. While some may consider this piece of trivia a non-factor, anyone who spells SEAL's as seals or Seals either does not know better, or is sending a not-so-subtle opinion of that organization. McPhee cannot claim ignorance, so one has to assume he falls into the latter category. "It's true and in the past" Oh, I guess that solves that! Maybe he's been shown to have an intimate knowledge of SEAL6 in the past and we are just supposed to take him at his word, but I'd like to see someone challenge his statement a bit. It's no different on this forum, how often do we challenge members to cite their qualifications after claiming something? Often. ___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
|
| If you see me running try to keep up |
There are stories written about Luttrell and how he lied about the events in his book. Whether you believe it or not some of it sounds plausible and makes one question his account. Which service member do you believe on the account? Who knows but these guys need to go back to keeping what they do secret and stop trying to advance themselves financially from their actual ops while they were working by for Uncle Sam. I see no problem with using their experience to make a living but one guy makes some money and they come out of the woodwork trying to cash in. | |||
|
| Sigforum K9 handler |
I believe that Axelson, Dietz, and Mike Murphy were heroes. The rest is inconsequential. But, it isn't that I'm a pro SEAL. I think that Gary Gordon and Randy Shugart are heroes. And every other guy that served in Special Ops at a high level honorably. I get tired of the "bad apples" analogy, as it is way over used. There are thousands of guys out there that aren't accused of doing shit, and they shouldn't be tarnished by these unconfirmed allegations. | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
My years of interaction with that community was almost all with VN era officers, now retired. There is an ethos about publicity, not surprising for a bunch of men who do very dangerous things heavily dependent on stealth and surprise. Avoid it! Now we have some team guys profiting from their activities and the stories. That is problemmatical, even without the ethos, because the indispensible ingredient in success in books, movies, etc. is excitement. That means most stories are exaggerated one way or the other to inject the drama, pathos, suspense deemed necessary for commercial success. The attitude seems to be if you want to use your team experience to, say, advise gear manufacturers, to improve or develop equipment, participate in quiet studies evaluating tactics, ops, methods, etc. great. Public relations is a problem. The idea of a "media resource" seems inherently and irrevocably mutually exclusive with stealth and surprise, a very slippery slope at the very least. When you write a book, it isn't just set into type and printed as you wrote it. Editors pour over it in excruciating detail, correcting, adding, deleting, suggesting, prodding, all with the idea of getting a product that will sell. If it is true, all the better, but everyone knows the facts can ruin a good story. These books aren't given under oath, and who is to say what happenings get great detail, others little or no detail or even mention. The author is under contract to deliver a book and a stake in the sales, and is susceptable to the pressures of those (s)he works with to take these "suggestions." When a story is made into a movie, it is far, far worse. Just ask David Crockett! Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
Member |
As someone who's never even met anyone who's ever met anyone in a tier one unit, it's hard to know what's real, what's fiction, and what conclusions to draw. I can't condone war crimes, yet I admire the men who do are willing to do whatever it takes for our country, and most of all I fear for the souls and psychological health of some of our elite warriors who repeated live at the tip of the spear dealing out "rough justice." I'm thankful for SigForum for the usual wide ranging and often thoughtful insights into this issue. The views posted here inform me, and make me think. | |||
|
| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
It's equally true that an over abundance of your attitude is why we never, truly, win anything, and an over abundance is exactly what we have and have had for a long time. | |||
|
Step by step walk the thousand mile road |
Someone please explain how to kill another human without desecrating the body of the person killed. If you think you can, you've never seen the body of a person killed by asphyxiation, blunt trauma, or exsanguination or had someone literally die under yours hands as you tried to save them. After sentience has left, the corpse is no longer the person. Nice is overrated "It's every freedom-loving individual's duty to lie to the government." Airsoftguy, June 29, 2018 | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2024