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Originally posted by FishOn:

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Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

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Originally posted by FishOn:
I understand that, but one would think with McChord Air Force base nearby, there might be a plane or two closer than Portland... Boeing Black Box is a very high value target. Of course they can't protect every city and every rock concert.

I understand the logic, but there simply isn't the requirement or money to protect it all.
And McCord AFB only has transport planes, C-17s, C-130s and some others maybe. To even have 2 aircraft on 24hr alert would basically take a complete squadron to sustain indefinitely.

Far better and efficient for there to be better security controls at the airport level to prevent this kind of thing. I know for some reason airliners are allergic to any sort of locking mechanism to prevent unauthorized start / taxi / takeoff, which I've never understood.

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Originally posted by Andyb:

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Originally posted by Top Gun Supply:
He sounded almost euphoric on the radio.

He was doing aerobatics in a stolen commercial turboprop, that would at least get my juices flowing

Agreed, the adrenaline was flowing and he was living the dream, albeit for a short time.

Makes sense. Why can't they require a key or a code to start a plane?

The guy was a mechanic, so even if such a thing existed, he would likely have the means or know-how to bypass it anyway. No matter what policies and procedures you put in place, somebody out there is going to get around them...it's only a matter of time.

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Originally posted by FishOn:
Makes sense. Why can't they require a key or a code to start a plane?

Mechanics, as part of their job, will from time to time be required to start engines. As a result, they will either have the codes, access to the keys, or knowledge of how to get around the security system.

Much like computer security, making something really secure makes it a big pain in the rump and gets in the way of people doing their jobs. Make it secure enough and folks will put a lot of effort into getting around the security so they can do their jobs. (And saying unkind things about the folks who came up with the security device/procedure/plan/etc while doing it.)

I worked at a company that revamped their engineering process to slow the rate at which morons (who should have been fired very quickly after they were hired) added bugs to the codebase. Said changes resulted in it taking two to three times as long to add new features or fix the bugs that said morons introduced. Based on this history and other exposures to “process,” I am always wary of changes to prevent things that are either low probability events or could be better addressed in other ways.

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Originally posted by slosig:

Mechanics, as part of their job, will from time to time be required to start engines. As a result, they will either have the codes, access to the keys, or knowledge of how to get around the security system.

There are no codes, and there are no keys for large aircraft.

Depending on what I'm flying, it can take an hour to get far enough into the preparation to start engines.

I'm also an aircraft mechanic, and have been for many years. Not all aircraft mechanics do engine runs or taxi aircraft.

What's more remarkable here is that he was able to get to a location on the field with the aircraft to make a takeoff roll.

These aircraft do not operate without a clearance and an instrument flight plan, let alone taxi without the same. An aircraft seen moving without a clearance or attempting to get to a runway would cause a great deal of concern long before ever taking off.

^^^^^ Exactly! There has to more to the story than a mechanic who had no operational flight experience who got the thing started, got a clearance, taxied through the alley and ramp... and then got airborne and performed passable acro.

This whole event is actually fascinating if you think about it.

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Originally posted by aileron:
^^^^^ Exactly! There has to more to the story than a mechanic who had no operational flight experience who got the thing started, got a clearance, taxied through the alley and ramp... and then got airborne and performed passable acro.

There was no passable acrobatic maneuvering. The guy was lucky he survived what some are calling a "barrel roll." It wasn't.

There's certainly more to the story, though.

I don't think the guy had any clearance from anybody. I heard ATC asking another aircraft where he came from and confirmed he was not talking to him. It seems radio contact was made after he got in the air.

I can't imagine the amount of testicular fortitude it took to push those powers levers forward. It's game on at that point.

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Originally posted by sns3guppy:

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Originally posted by aileron:
^^^^^ Exactly! There has to more to the story than a mechanic who had no operational flight experience who got the thing started, got a clearance, taxied through the alley and ramp... and then got airborne and performed passable acro.

There was no passable acrobatic maneuvering. The guy was lucky he survived what some are calling a "barrel roll." It wasn't.

There's certainly more to the story, though.

He rolled the airplane. Definition of a proper "barrel roll" is irrelevant.

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He rolled the airplane

He came this close to rolling a submarine.

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Originally posted by Top Gun Supply:

He rolled the airplane. Definition of a proper "barrel roll" is irrelevant.

Not really. He fell out of a banked maneuver and managed to not strike the ground. It wasn't a roll. It was surviving botched handling of the controls.

He continued doing that until luck ran out and he hit the ground.

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Originally posted by Top Gun Supply:

I can't imagine the amount of testicular fortitude it took to push those powers levers forward. It's game on at that point.

It's not a game, it's a criminal act. It's not balls or "testicular fortitude." It's stupidity.

He put an untold number of lives at stake, broke numerous federal regulations and laws, and destroyed a very expensive aircraft.

There is absolutely nothing admirable about what this asshole did.

Assuming the plane costs between $30 and $50 million, with the cleanup costs, how much is this incident likely to cost? $75 million? More?

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Originally posted by deepocean:
Assuming the plane costs between $30 and $50 million, with the cleanup costs, how much is this incident likely to cost? $75 million? More?

More, and that doesn't take into account what it's going to cost to address the security lapse that allowed t his to take place.

Consider the costs of scrambling and intercepting, and everything else associated with this, including diversions and delays that snowball throughout the system, and the actual cost may be in the hundreds of millions.

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Originally posted by Top Gun Supply:
I hope there was enough left of this guy to determine what was in his bloodstream that didn't belong there. He sounded almost euphoric on the radio.

In the SECOND video that I posted on page 2 (towards the end of the video, I think) there’s a clip of him talking to traffic control and he says (something along the lines of) “I’d like to know how to pressurize the cabin — I’m feeling pretty lightheaded.” That could have something to do with it.

ETA: it’s at the 30 minute mark

Photographer in the right place at the right time, and got a great shot of the F15 taking off to intercept the stolen plane.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-wa...stolen-q400-airliner

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Originally posted by Copefree:

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Originally posted by Top Gun Supply:
I hope there was enough left of this guy to determine what was in his bloodstream that didn't belong there. He sounded almost euphoric on the radio.

In the SECOND video that I posted on page 2 (towards the end of the video, I think) there’s a clip of him talking to traffic control and he says (something along the lines of) “I’d like to know how to pressurize the cabin — I’m feeling pretty lightheaded.” That could have something to do with it.

ETA: it’s at the 30 minute mark

He never got high enough for hypoxia to be an issue. He says a lot of things which are not correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LLmF9tZoEE

Includes audio from the controller, the subject, and other traffic. He made a short taxi to Rwy 16C, and another pilot reported smoke coming from his wheels during the takeoff roll, indicating locked brakes. As anti-skid prevents brake lock manually, he had to have taxied and attempted takeoff with the park brake engaged.

Well, you've got to give him props for originality. Most folks puss out and swallow a handful of pills or the barrel of a gun. He stole an airplane and took it on a joy ride. If you're going to go you might as well have a blast doing it!

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”

Hunter had his number.

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Originally posted by sns3guppy:

It's not a game, it's a criminal act. It's not balls or "testicular fortitude." It's stupidity.

He put an untold number of lives at stake, broke numerous federal regulations and laws, and destroyed a very expensive aircraft.

There is absolutely nothing admirable about what this asshole did.

I never suggested there was.

The man who stole a plane said he didn't need much help: 'I've played some video games'

Hmmmm.

I’m thinking the reports that this guy was a mechanic are wrong. He didn’t know what altitude was, didn’t know how to pressurize the aircraft, and possibly taxi’d with the parking brake on. Even the greenest technician has some level of knowledge of these things. I am betting he was a ground handler.

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Originally posted by sns3guppy:

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Originally posted by aileron:
^^^^^ Exactly! There has to more to the story than a mechanic who had no operational flight experience who got the thing started, got a clearance, taxied through the alley and ramp... and then got airborne and performed passable acro.

There was no passable acrobatic maneuvering. The guy was lucky he survived what some are calling a "barrel roll." It wasn't.

Well, he did roll 180* to inverted, and then split "S" 90* off the roll axis - definitely acrobatic per the FAA's definition, and he didn't hit the water so that makes it de facto passable. I've had acro students do worse.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: aileron,