quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:
That's it. It is such a web woven into the fabric of the country that it's hard to excise without leaving an ugly mark of its own.

People have had to make life-long decisions based on how the market was skewed. Now, a free market may never let them reset their position. For some, these changes may be life or death.

I hate the notion of government run health care but I haven't heard any clear explanation of how something different will for sure lower costs and keep coverage.

Obamacare is like a large mass of necrotic flesh in the body. You either cut it out and accept the scar, or leave it to fester and let the person die. The outcome of Government ran healthcare is the Department of Veteran Affairs.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Bill pulled, House goes into recess.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/...or-after-ben-shapiro

quote:

In recent hours, it became clear that Ryan and Trump, despite threats and pleas, didn’t have the votes to pass the AHCA, which essentially maintained the basic premises of Obamacare while worsening the so-called health insurance death spiral and doing little to cut costs over time. Ryan visited Trump earlier today to explain the situation – but even as that happened, members of the White House staff kept maintaining that the vote would be held today, or Trump would simply drop the health care issue entirely.

This is the best outcome... at least for today.

Go back to the drawing board. Let there be more debate.

One other thing: There's no reason for any Democrat to ever vote for any bill when the alternative is full-blown Obamacare. If they now vote to repeal, and the alternative is nothing, you may get a few Dems. to go along with some common sense market reforms. Or.... let them explain why insurance can't be sold across State lines? Why do people have to pay for "essential services" they may not need like maternity care? All of the things that limit choice and make insurance so expensive.

quote:

Originally posted by domcintosh:

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:
That's it. It is such a web woven into the fabric of the country that it's hard to excise without leaving an ugly mark of its own.

People have had to make life-long decisions based on how the market was skewed. Now, a free market may never let them reset their position. For some, these changes may be life or death.

I hate the notion of government run health care but I haven't heard any clear explanation of how something different will for sure lower costs and keep coverage.

Obamacare is like a large mass of necrotic flesh in the body. You either cut it out and accept the scar, or leave it to fester and let the person die. The outcome of Government ran healthcare is the Department of Veteran Affairs.

Fair point. It's difficult.

Something will have to be done at some point and I keep hoping the good minds we have on the task will produce something.

Welcome to the world of politics Mr. President.

This cluster F... justifies my decision to not monetarily support the GOP until they learn how govern and grow a pair.

Jim

A repeal is a one-pager.
"The ACA is hereby repealed."
They could do that on Monday. Pass a flat tax on Tuesday and Trump can then go to Mara-Lago for the rest of the year.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
A repeal is a one-pager.
"The ACA is hereby repealed."
They could do that on Monday. Pass a flat tax on Tuesday and Trump can then go to Mara-Lago for the rest of the year.

I like the way you think.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Go back to the drawing board. Let there be more debate.

Yes. This seems the path to success. Ryan and his establishment forces and the Tea Party/conservative forces must learn to find a path - together. Ryan pushing out a bill while saying, essentially, take it or leave it was the old way.

To restore Congress, the Republicans must also find a path with some Democrats, too. Working together is a habit that must be fostered.

Functionally, yes. Politcally?????

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
A repeal is a one-pager.
"The ACA is hereby repealed."
They could do that on Monday. Pass a flat tax on Tuesday and Trump can then go to Mara-Lago for the rest of the year.

morons

seven years of Obamacare and this is the best they could do when the chips were down...

well, its still Obamacare - let it crash and burn and I hope it takes a shitload of them down with it

they had their chance and they fucked it up

next....

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

This is the best outcome... at least for today.

Go back to the drawing board. Let there be more debate.

One other thing: There's no reason for any Democrat to ever vote for any bill when the alternative is full-blown Obamacare. If they now vote to repeal, and the alternative is nothing, you may get a few Dems. to go along with some common sense market reforms. Or.... let them explain why insurance can't be sold across State lines? Why do people have to pay for "essential services" they may not need like maternity care? All of the things that limit choice and make insurance so expensive.

I tend to agree.
While it would be good to "move the ball forward" ~ I would rather have a "good" bill.
I don't understand why we just didn't ram a bill that makes the Dems puke.
They would (and did with O-care) have done it to us.
We needed to run up the score as much as we can as they can't stop us.
Unfortunately we stopped ourselves.

From Mark Levin:
"RYANCARE" = "RINOCARE (Repeal In Name Only)"

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

This is the best outcome... at least for today.

Go back to the drawing board. Let there be more debate.

One other thing: There's no reason for any Democrat to ever vote for any bill when the alternative is full-blown Obamacare. If they now vote to repeal, and the alternative is nothing, you may get a few Dems. to go along with some common sense market reforms. Or.... let them explain why insurance can't be sold across State lines? Why do people have to pay for "essential services" they may not need like maternity care? All of the things that limit choice and make insurance so expensive.

I tend to agree.
While it would be good to "move the ball forward" ~ I would rather have a "good" bill.
I don't understand why we just didn't ram a bill that makes the Dems puke.
They would (and did with O-care) have done it to us.
We needed to run up the score as much as we can as they can't stop us.
Unfortunately we stopped ourselves.

Trump needed to move forward on this to show he was working hard during the first 100 days to keep his promises. I don't think Trump cares if it passed or not since he can say it was the RINOs that wanted this and they couldn't pass it to the Senate.

Trump looks good here bc he can say, we need a more comprehensive proposal that pares back Obamacare even more. He will say, through his minions, that it's the RINOs that couldn't pass the repeal.

On a practical level, you simply cannot pass a law that says Obamacare is over, at least not one that has any true effect other than splashy headlines. It's not the actual law itself that can't be repealed but it's worm like rules and regulations that were implemented that have to be rooted out.

The Obama people designed their plan so that the law itself is pretty much a shell and it's the various agencies and so on that have the true power in putting enabling rules and regs out there. When you have a rule or reg that doesn't make any direct reference to Obamacare in the enabling document, you have to ferret it out.

That's why you can't pass a simple bill.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
morons

seven years of Obamacare and this is the best they could do when the chips were down...

well, its still Obamacare - let it crash and burn and I hope it takes a shitload of them down with it

they had their chance and they fucked it up

next....

Amen!

It was interesting to me that Ryan said in his press conference that the Republicans were moving on to other issues. That Obamacare would be the law of the land for the foreseeable future.

It may be better to just let Obamacare fail and fall from it's own weight.

quote:

Originally posted by lbj:
It may be better to just let Obamacare fail and fall from it's own weight.

I expect the Democrats to rush in with every promise to fill every gap with more government.

The Republicans will not get past this without a good egging.

It is hard for someone who is a populist president to ignore the pain Obamacare visits on the people.

A few years ago I really liked Paul Ryan.

But I don't have any confidence now that he can effectively lead the REP House. I think it is time for a new Speaker.

President Trump:

https://news.grabien.com/story...e-unfortunately-will

President Trump announced his planned path forward: "Let ObamaCare explode."

Trump said that if things get bad enough, Democrats will come aboard the reform effort. At that point, Trump said, it will become possible to pass a bill even better than Ryan's.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
I think it is time for a new Speaker.

Who would that be?

Mark Meadows is the Chair of the 'Freedom Caucus' that consists of 29 members in the House.

<This is not being argumentative or sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious who is out there who could lead a MAJORITY of House republicans to pass legislation that could then pass the Senate>

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
A few years ago I really liked Paul Ryan.

But I don't have any confidence now that he can effectively lead the REP House. I think it is time for a new Speaker.

Yea, his conception of who makes the coalition of success is off. He seems to know how to push Republicans to adopt Democrat programs with no Democrat support. Nifty.

Rand Paul and other voices, like traditional conservatives, were written off or taken for granted. In fairness, those folks didn't seem to have clear explanations of how to keep preexisting conditions and the elderly with care.

I confess to wanting to see Ryan go during the 2016 election process. Maybe now, he'll never return to his angling for 2020.

His performance on this equaled his vice-presidential debate achievement.