Am Yisrael chai!

I want the hostages home.
But I'm not optimistic on HamAss actually following through. And just stalling to control more of the propaganda war.

I watched videos of gazans celebrating and calling for violence against Israel.
Even claiming victory.

Yea Screaming, I am not holding my breath, just hoping we did not promise them financial aide to rebuild. Let the Saudis and Qataris foot the bill.

And now Pakistan and India are starting to heat up again.

Look at all of these starving Gazans. They look so emaciated it's a wonder they can muster the strength to celebrate.

Well we knew whether the plan works not it will be messy regardless, one of those situations where no good choices exist. Given the odds of making a deal with a sworn lethal enemy, I would have preferred full military occupation, eradication of enemies, deportation of all civilians, and full permanent annexation as part of Israel with a permanent ban on any and all former residents and other peoples who hate Israelis. Basically a new space for Israeli full citizens only.

If the Gazans were not terrorists, and had been under Hamas' thumb against their will and were well known as haters of their leaders, then I'd say the current plan would be useful since the Gazans would welcome the takeover. But since the current generation and next will always hate Israel, the plan seems more like an uphill battle. And since the Gazans won't have ANY skin in the game for the transition and recovery, EVERYTHING will be handed to them on a silver platter: free housing, free food, free brand new infrastructure, free civilian government to run things for them, a real cake walk. But without contributing to the plan themselves, their hatred of Israel will continue to grow under their skin. Like making a friendly gesture to a an enemy, and they just hate you more for it.

Since Gazans will continue to hate Israel, and will cut any Israelis' throat when they're not looking, full annexation seems a better option. The plan is good, but only for a population who welcomes the removal of oppression and appreciates the opportunity. But the Gazans are not those kind of people. It's like letting a murderer out of prison on parole, providing everything for him free of charge, and he kills again.

I get the bigger picture about broader changes with other middle east nations getting involved with the plan and it's hard to argue with that, but it's still the Gazans we're dealing with. So lets hope whoever ends up occupying Gaza going forward are not the same people who are there now, since their case is a hopeless one, and they will never concede to freedom and living as a moral civilized society. People are generally true to their original nature for their lifetime regardless of their circumstances.

Wrightd, I was discussing just this issue with my wife today. I think most of us know the basics of the situation as you have described it, and agree that the brainwashed children of Hamas schools likely will be tinder for another intifada in the future.

But I also think that today’s deal is as good as Israel is likely to get given the appalling reaction of much of the west, that has bought the absurd accusations of “genocide”; even to western countries recognizing a non-existent and certainly poisonous “Palestinian state”.

Exactly. As I said no really good solutions exist. I'm just concerned with the tradeoff between short term survivability under the current plan with a possible better long term solution with annexation. The second option may not have been possible at all. I trust Netanyahu. I just hope Israelis are smart enough to have made this plan instead of the other.

This is one case where Trump’s over-the-top—-shall we say “optimism” makes me cringe, to be very honest. I know that he knows he can’t trust these MF’ers more than he can throw them; I know he will allow Netanyahu to crush Hamas if they don’t return the hostages. But to those who are not big fans of DJT, it sounds like his usual bragging. Well, we shall see.

Witkoff speaking in Hostage Square (Tel Aviv). Not a lot of love for Bibi over there. He was pointing out everyone who played a part in this deal and when he came to Netanyahu there were uproarious boos. That kind of surprised me. They do love The Donald though.

The pessimist in me worries that Hamas could easily make fools out of all of these people taking victory laps and celebrating this weekend. It would mean their end, but they don't care.

Bibi is no DJT. He is another corrupt politician. And should be treated as such. I will never forgive him for poisoning his people during the wuflu. Especially children and healthy adults (child producing and child bearing).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: old rugged cross,

The optimist in me can only hope. The realist says not a chance.

The reality on the ground indicates which is correct.

quote:

Hamas begins to regroup

“Hamas returns 7,000 security personnel to active service, in an attempt to regain control of areas evacuated by the IDF, BBC report says.”

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/416100

I don’t get the constant hand wringing or worry about what people think/how this appears. I just don’t.

If Hamas back-peddles on this, they will face a penalty that will make the last year look like kindergarteners pushing each other on a play ground. And when it happens, you’ll start to see more US involvement. And what’s left of Hamas will flee to Syria, or the like. And they’ll still get hammered by drone attacks there.

Hamas is playing with fire on this. What others think/how this looks matters not. The follow through for violating is all that matters.

Possibly hamas regrouping was predictable and will allow finishing them. Maybe the plan all along.

Hopefully that's the twist for this whole plan, since Hamas doesn't really have the commitment or proper state of mind to make it happpen.

I don't know why Hamas is allowed to stay inside Gaza. All they will do it take it over again, continue abusing their own subjects, and killing any Israeli they can get their hands on. It's all they know and the only thing they do above anything else. So even if they're stripped of their arms, they will get more and restart their rein of terror. Why wouldn't they ? They'll get free food and housing, free new infrastructure, free everything, without any skin in the game. Does anyone think that level of pollution in that society won't automatically resurrect ? Of course it will. You've got to be freaking stupid to let your mortal enemies back into their former land after you take it over, so they may begin starving and pillaging and killing everyone the don't like, and reestablish relationships with everyone else in the middle east who will sponsor them. I don't think Hamas will return all of the live hostages, I think it's still a big game to those animals, given past behavior being the best predictor of current and future behavior. If they weren't still Hamas terrorists you'd have to give them a different name, and last time I checked they're still called Hamas. If there's any chance of Gazan's changing their opinions of the nation of Israel, however bad that it already is, the bad guys need to be eliminated or separated from that space on a permanent basis. It's like letting a student remain in high school after committing a mass shooting. For animals like Hamas all agreements, rules, responsibility, accountability, follow through, and ability to deliver mean absolutely nothing, a big fat zero. It's beyond stupid as far as I understand it.

How does that saying go? "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Bibi is no DJT. He is another corrupt politician. And should be treated as such. I will never forgive him for poisoning his people during the wuflu. Especially children and healthy adults (child producing and child bearing).

Oh goodgoddamm. Shut up with this stupid shit.

HAMAS is the fruit of the Palestinian tree…

Oh goodgoddamm. Shut up with this stupid shit.[/QUOTE]

Oh really, you don't like the truth? Fine. But telling someone to shut up because it hurts your feeling is just tough shit!

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross
Oh really, you don't like the truth? Fine. But telling someone to shut up because it hurts your feeling is just tough shit!

Kiss my ass.

You might as well support hamas.

Now that is just stupid, but not going to tell you shut up