quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
The fact of the matter is that without the 5 billion in tax dollars that Hussein gave them, they would’ve already been a memory by now. Their cars are junk.

I wouldn’t buy one but they most surely aren’t junk. I got to drive a model S for a day and I loved the car. I’ve never heard someone actually experience one and not come away thoroughly impressed. I’m sure they’re out there just like every manufacturer but I think we are getting our judgement clouded by other things we don’t like about the company.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Every time I read something about Musk or Tesla, I am reminded of Preston Tucker.

The Eerie Similarities Between Tesla and a Failed 1940s Car Company



Tesla can learn from the lessons of Tucker.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/c...o-learn-from-tucker/

Was Tucker's market cap greater than that of Ford and GM combined at the time?

I've driven a Tesla and think its an awesome piece of technology who's time hasn't come yet

was watching about some SJW here in Tucson that is lobbying to have charging stations installed all over town so that EV owners can charge their cars since they're non-polluting, green....

I don't think thats a good idea - at least on the taxpayer dime. If they want to do that perhaps all the EV owners should get together, take up a collection and install their own.

For the average person, the EV is a solution to an imaginary problem - and they refuse to consider the technology that makes the electricity from the local utility...

yes, its a nice car, a wonderful piece of technology and all that but I didn't buy one when I had a chance at a discount for two reasons

1 - for $80,000 it looked like a Civic
2 - 200 mile range, and the install cost for a home charging station was in excess of $8000 at the low end and the local infrastructure here can't support more than 1 or 2 stations without major upgrades according to the local engineers

so I could drive to Phoenix but not drive back...yeah, thats really useful

So, I have a model 3 performance.

It is ugly. So are almost all new cars. They are all squashed jelly beans.

Don’t know how your install cost was 8K, unless your wiring needed upgrading. Mine cost 500 for the charger and another couple hundred for the electrician - who does, regularly, do work for us at work, and is pretty reasonable.

My range can get to 200, if very cold outside. The long range S, has about 300 when very cold. (Mine was around 60, the fast ones have less range than the long range models.)

It is vastly cheaper and faster than my E550 was, given the lower maintenance costs, but it is not a high speed car.

German cars come alive over 90, and feel very stable up to, at least 130. My Tesla is safe at 110 or so, but does not feel as solid.

Realistically, Tesla’s market cap should be larger than Audi or BMW, and is. Being higher than GM was something even Musk said was unrealistic.

Why should Tesla’s market cap be more than BMW?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Why should Tesla’s market cap be more than BMW?

. Because BMW doesn’t have a Musk. Don’t bet against generational inventors or entrepreneurs like Musk, Buffett, Gates or politics aside,Bloomberg.

quote:

Originally posted by Stlhead:
Was Tucker's market cap greater than that of Ford and GM combined at the time?

Your point? Tesla's market cap is beyond absurd and another shining example of just how insane Wall Street can be.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Why should Tesla’s market cap be more than BMW?

I'm not sure how all that works but to compare them to Tucker is definitely way off. Tesla actually sold 367,000 vehicles last year which is way more than several brands (Acura for example is usually around 50,000). That's plenty of vehicles sold to be a viable brand. The real test will be when everyone has electric cars.


"Tesla has become the most valuable US car maker of all time after the company closed Monday with a market value of $81.39billion.

The company surpassed Ford Motor's peak of $80.81billion that was set in 1999.
On Tuesday, Tesla shares continued to climb to nearly 4 per cent to $469.36.

Tesla's short sellers have lost a stunning $8.4billion over the last seven months as the electronic car manufacturer's stock hit a record high and beat investor expectations.

Tesla announced on Friday that they delivered 112,000 vehicles in the fourth quarter, beating the expectations of 104,960 vehicles, according to IBES data from Refinitiv.

Tesla delivered approximately 367,500 vehicles during all of 2019."

quote:

Originally posted by Stlhead:
Was Tucker's market cap greater than that of Ford and GM combined at the time?

Enron's market cap was greater than GM's when GM's market cap was 5 times what it is today.

I think it's great Tesla managed to make 1/3 the number of vehicles Mitsubishi made and 5.5% of the number GM made. Viable brand, maybe. Viable manufacturer, maybe not.

quote:

Don’t know how your install cost was 8K, unless your wiring needed upgrading. Mine cost 500 for the charger and another couple hundred for the electrician - who does, regularly, do work for us at work, and is pretty reasonable.

according to TEP (the power utility), the infrastructure in my neighborhood isn't robust enough to handle more than 3 of these chargers, so if I had decided to buy one I would have paid for a lot of infrastructure just to feed the charger station...and they said 'minimum $8k'

Tucker produced 58 vehicles I believe. Ford sales have been in a negative trend while GM has flatlined sales number. Musk opened their new manufacturing facility in China yesterday. The short sellers have been trying to burn Tesla in the press with no negative impact on the stock price.
Hence there are better short sale prospects out there that don’t involve a polynomial savant.

The guy is a genius and is looking to the future.
Low orbit satellite system for 5G, brain to computer interface work, solar shingles, solar storage systems, rechargeable battery systems and expected to build 100 factories around the world.

And as someone mentioned, EV factory in China. He is also working on EV buses and trucks. EV of all kinds is the future. Read David Fessler's book "The Energy Disruption Triangle".

Tesla cars are great. With the taxpayers subsidizing them, they only cost about 50% more than a comparably sized internal combustion car. If you run out of charge, you can just have someone bring you a two gallon can of electricity to get you back on the road. And what's wrong with stopping every 200 miles to charge up for 12 hours? Any trips longer than 200 miles, Elon just takes his government subsidized Gulfstream Jet, which doesn't pollute either.

Now that Elon is going to have Teslas made in China, they will save American workers the trouble of having to get up in the morning.

And electricity for the Tesla is free, and doesn't create any pollution, because electricity comes from somewhere else and the electrical company is pretty much a charity. And they don't run power plants, which don't burn coal. And mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, and various heavy metals from the coal are good for the environment.

quote:

Originally posted by RoverSig:
Tesla cars are great. With the taxpayers subsidizing them, they only cost about 50% more than a comparably sized internal combustion car. If you run out of charge, you can just have someone bring you a two gallon can of electricity to get you back on the road. And what's wrong with stopping every 200 miles to charge up for 12 hours? Any trips longer than 200 miles, Elon just takes his government subsidized Gulfstream Jet, which doesn't pollute either.

Now that Elon is going to have Teslas made in China, they will save American workers the trouble of having to get up in the morning.

And electricity for the Tesla is free, and doesn't create any pollution, because electricity comes from somewhere else and the electrical company is pretty much a charity. And they don't run power plants, which don't burn coal. And mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, and various heavy metals from the coal are good for the environment.

You do realize that oil,natural gas and ethanol are heavily subsidized resources. Electrical generation in this country is around 85% nuclear, natural gas and renewable. Roversig: you sound like you’re a proponent for AOC’s Green New Deal?

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:

quote:

Don’t know how your install cost was 8K, unless your wiring needed upgrading. Mine cost 500 for the charger and another couple hundred for the electrician - who does, regularly, do work for us at work, and is pretty reasonable.

according to TEP (the power utility), the infrastructure in my neighborhood isn't robust enough to handle more than 3 of these chargers, so if I had decided to buy one I would have paid for a lot of infrastructure just to feed the charger station...and they said 'minimum $8k'

PG&E tried to pull that nonsense with a guy I worked re the solar power system he wanted to install. He sued and beat them.

I have neither the time nor the desire to get that involved over something as useless as an electric car with a 200 mile range. I'll wait for the hydrogen power version to make its debut

seriously, EV's won't have any real value until there are as many charging stations as gas stations and I can get a complete charge in under five minutes - the fill time for gas

until that time, there is a reason why the internal combustion engine is the primary power plant

for all its downsides, its the most dependable heat engine out there and I'd like to recall that the energy density per pound of fuel source (44 MJ/kg) is still better than the Tesla Li-ion battery

or converted to similar units, a Tesla battery has an energy capacity of 159.5 Whrs/kg. Gasoline has an energy density of 12.7000 kWhrs/kg

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by Stlhead:
Was Tucker's market cap greater than that of Ford and GM combined at the time?

Your point? Tesla's market cap is beyond absurd and another shining example of just how insane Wall Street can be.

My point was that Tesla’s market cap is currently more than ford and gm combined, other than being a failed car company with a charismatic and “visionary” leader the companies are not that similar. It is also my opinion that Tesla’s stock price is unrealistic, but in the end a thing is worth what the market is willing to pay for it and someone is still buying the stock. Eventually the Tesla believers will be rewarded or not, I will not be bothered either way, mildly amused hopefully but certainly not bothered. In my unlearned opinion Tesla is far more likely to collapse in flames and litigation, but I do strongly hope Starlink is successful, because I would love some good internet at the ranch.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
I have neither the time nor the desire to get that involved over something as useless as an electric car with a 200 mile range. I'll wait for the hydrogen power version to make its debut

seriously, EV's won't have any real value until there are as many charging stations as gas stations and I can get a complete charge in under five minutes - the fill time for gas

until that time, there is a reason why the internal combustion engine is the primary power plant

for all its downsides, its the most dependable heat engine out there and I'd like to recall that the energy density per pound of fuel source (44 MJ/kg) is still better than the Tesla Li-ion battery

or converted to similar units, a Tesla battery has an energy capacity of 159.5 Whrs/kg. Gasoline has an energy density of 12.7000 kWhrs/kg