Everyone is locked into a 200 mile range. I’ve been driving for 35 years and have driven over 200 miles maybe 10 times in my life. Do people still waste there vacation sitting in a car droning down the highway. It’s not a car for people who do or for people who only have one car or for people who can’t figure out renting a car once a year. For 80% of the driving done everyday it’s plenty of distance and it will only get better.

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Everyone is locked into a 200 mile range. I’ve been driving for 35 years and have driven over 200 miles maybe 10 times in my life.

On Monday I drove from NoVa to Arlington, TN. On Tuesday to St. Louis. In fact I drive to the east coast at least twice a year. Flying is impractical when taking the family, the dog, and everyone's gear and stuff. Yes, lots of people travel more than 200 miles at a stretch. This is for another thread but the 4Runner was awesome!

Good for you. Sounds like your perfect overpriced car. I have driven over 200 miles a whole lot in my lifetime and expect to many more times.

Sidebar. My favorite Tesla-ism. Listening to a Tesla guy rationalize that all the stops are actually a good thing. Time for multiple lunches, bathroom breaks, walks, etc. As a gas guy I stop and do those when want to not when Elon says it’s time.

The time may come where these cars replace the ICE but it ain’t right now. Range, cost, infrastructure. Not necessarily in that order.

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Originally posted by Stlhead:
My point was that Tesla’s market cap is currently more than ford and gm combined, other than being a failed car company with a charismatic and “visionary” leader the companies are not that similar. It is also my opinion that Tesla’s stock price is unrealistic, but in the end a thing is worth what the market is willing to pay for it and someone is still buying the stock.

Yes, it's "worth what the market is willing to pay" but it's priced for continued astronomical growth. And now the real competition begins as many automakers start to compete in the high-end electric vehicle market.

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Originally posted by midwest guy:

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Originally posted by RoverSig:
Tesla cars are great. With the taxpayers subsidizing them, they only cost about 50% more than a comparably sized internal combustion car. If you run out of charge, you can just have someone bring you a two gallon can of electricity to get you back on the road. And what's wrong with stopping every 200 miles to charge up for 12 hours? Any trips longer than 200 miles, Elon just takes his government subsidized Gulfstream Jet, which doesn't pollute either.

Now that Elon is going to have Teslas made in China, they will save American workers the trouble of having to get up in the morning.

And electricity for the Tesla is free, and doesn't create any pollution, because electricity comes from somewhere else and the electrical company is pretty much a charity. And they don't run power plants, which don't burn coal. And mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, and various heavy metals from the coal are good for the environment.

You do realize that oil,natural gas and ethanol are heavily subsidized resources. Electrical generation in this country is around 85% nuclear, natural gas and renewable.
Roversig: you sound like you’re a proponent for AOC’s Green New Deal?

Nope, I am not a proponent of AOC's Green New Deal. Indeed, I suspect AOC is a big believer in electric cars like the Tesla. I'm more of an internal combustion engine 4X4 kinda person, no doubt despised by AOC as a Deplorable.

I think the Tesla cars are vastly over-rated and not very practical for most of us. I also believe Musk is a scam artist. My other post was meant to convey that with sarcasm, but I guess it wasn't clear.

Musk's basic product is not economically viable without very large subsidies from the government (and support by investors looking for "the next big thing"). He sells them at a loss. Yes, the government sets the conditions for much of industry, including energy, which can result in "subsidies," but few people get to bring a product to market with the direct cash subsidies Musk has enjoyed because his product is supposedly "good" for the environment. The Volt, by GM, was not a commercially viable product and was allowed to fail, yet Tesla is propped up and allowed to sell cars at a loss. I also think people in general are fooled into believing electric cars don't have any associated pollution (or "carbon footprint") when clearly there is some: much of our electric power comes from coal-fired plants. That is all.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RoverSig,

Why does everyone think that natural gas doesn't have a "carbon footprint"? The reality is almost 80% of our electric generation is fossil fueled, whether it is gas, coal or oil.

Now figure in the losses when converting from chemical energy to thermal to kinetic to electricity, converting up to transmission line voltages, transmission line losses, back down to distribution voltages, charging batteries (AC to DC to chemical), then from chemical to electric to kinetic when used in battery vehicles.

Whereas fossil fuel vehicles only have losses from chemical to thermal to kinetic.

Tesla gets government subsidies that would have the the greenies, leftists, liberals, and budget hawks screaming "corporate welfare" from the rooftops if it were any other manufacturer (other than solar panels, of course).

I'm probably going to buy a model 3 or a cybertruck. I also have a newer V8 Camaro SS.

I like REALLY fast cars. The simplicity of the drivetrain is attractive and they are packed with techno-geek goodies(I'll have to loosen my tin foil hat a bit to get over some of them). The ones I've looked at certainly do not feel like junk.

The emotional responses to Musk, for and against, are quite interesting. I just like fast cars.

I drive to San Diego - 8 hours - about 400 miles each way. I drive to LA, Vegas, and as far north as Bakersfield - 200 miles go by as a blink. Recharge 4 times to get to San Diego and back is absolutely absurd.

Yeah, a lot of people don't drive 200 miles at a stretch - I used to drive from Merrimack NH to Halifax Nova Scotia 4 times a year - 630 miles each way. An electric car? No way.

If 200 miles is the range, then a trip from Marquette to my friends house in Sturgeon Bay WI.is out. 225 miles.
Looks like I would have to rent a car after I bought my Tesla.
Nope.

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Originally posted by midwest guy:

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Originally posted by RoverSig:
Tesla cars are great. With the taxpayers subsidizing them, they only cost about 50% more than a comparably sized internal combustion car. If you run out of charge, you can just have someone bring you a two gallon can of electricity to get you back on the road. And what's wrong with stopping every 200 miles to charge up for 12 hours? Any trips longer than 200 miles, Elon just takes his government subsidized Gulfstream Jet, which doesn't pollute either.

Now that Elon is going to have Teslas made in China, they will save American workers the trouble of having to get up in the morning.

And electricity for the Tesla is free, and doesn't create any pollution, because electricity comes from somewhere else and the electrical company is pretty much a charity. And they don't run power plants, which don't burn coal. And mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, and various heavy metals from the coal are good for the environment.

You do realize that oil,natural gas and ethanol are heavily subsidized resources. Electrical generation in this country is around 85% nuclear, natural gas and renewable. Roversig: you sound like you’re a proponent for AOC’s Green New Deal?

Solar and Wind is the future and the nuclear power plants will be shutting down.

A lot of people are in 2 vehicle homes. A Tesla makes a lot of sense for them. Personally, I'd keep the 4Runner and my wife would ditch her Mini Cooper in favor of an electric. I can still drive in the mountains and throw dead critters in the back of the 4Runner during hunting season, and we could use the electric shuttling the kids to and from school and getting groceries. We were kicking around adding solar to our next house, which would make an electric car an even easier choice.

Several people I work with drive their electric cars to work, plug them in while they work their 8 hours, then head home fully charged on the company's dime. The company is happy to do it for the good optics, so everybody wins.

Elon Musk Neurotechnology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...WVI&feature=youtu.be

https://www.neuralink.com/

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Originally posted by 41:

quote:

Originally posted by midwest guy:

quote:

Originally posted by RoverSig:
Tesla cars are great. With the taxpayers subsidizing them, they only cost about 50% more than a comparably sized internal combustion car. If you run out of charge, you can just have someone bring you a two gallon can of electricity to get you back on the road. And what's wrong with stopping every 200 miles to charge up for 12 hours? Any trips longer than 200 miles, Elon just takes his government subsidized Gulfstream Jet, which doesn't pollute either.

Now that Elon is going to have Teslas made in China, they will save American workers the trouble of having to get up in the morning.

And electricity for the Tesla is free, and doesn't create any pollution, because electricity comes from somewhere else and the electrical company is pretty much a charity. And they don't run power plants, which don't burn coal. And mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, and various heavy metals from the coal are good for the environment.

You do realize that oil,natural gas and ethanol are heavily subsidized resources. Electrical generation in this country is around 85% nuclear, natural gas and renewable. Roversig: you sound like you’re a proponent for AOC’s Green New Deal?

Solar and Wind is the future and the nuclear power plants will be shutting down.

Wind and solar are unreliable. Their lack of power density make them highly unsuitable for power intensive uses, like your home's AC, or any industrial use. Nuclear power is the future, or could be, if not for the NIMBYs and so-called Greens (really watermelons).