Could explosives be used to fragment the bridge into pieces that could sink deep enough to become a nonissue? I suppose I doubt that.

I wonder how much fiber optics crossed that span, and the level of data communications congestion caused from the tremendous traffic-rerouting. Basically the data version of what's probably occurring on the roads in that area today, and for months to come.

First thing I thought of "Are the 2 RORO ships there that the US Transportation Command uses. " I used to see them loading military equipment all the time right off of I-95. If they were there they are stuck now.

There is also a cruise ship dock. You can see the ships when you drive up I-95 if one is docked. It's a small dock are far as cruise ships go. I thinks I have only ever seen one ship there at a time. I don't know if any are going out now or they only go out when weather is warmer.

Terrible accident with this bridge collapse... Thoughts and prayers to all of the families involved.. What was the wind conditions during this incident??? .. The tall wall created by all of the stacked containers made a massive wind catcher to push the vessel that was having propulsion and steering problems....... Also it appears that this vessel has been involved in several other collisions due to mechanical problems as well as crew problems..... This is going to be a multi months effort just to clear the shipping channel and many years to replace the bridge. ............................................... drill sgt.

This slow speed diesel engine thing is interesting. I wonder if the loss of power is related to shutting off the engines or starting them in any unexpected way.

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
Could explosives be used to fragment the bridge into pieces that could sink deep enough to become a nonissue? I suppose I doubt that.

Small bridges over non-navigable rivers are often dropped with explosives and the bits left on the bottom.

In this case, that’s a lot of steel. Even cut up it will be a hazard to navigation for the foreseeable future. Better still is bring in divers with linear shaped charges, cut the steel into small chunks, lift it out with floating cranes, and recycle it at Sparrows Point. That way it won’t interfere with building a new bridge. It’ll take a while, but it strikes me as the best long-term answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimineer:
This slow speed diesel engine thing is interesting. I wonder if the loss of power is related to shutting off the engines or starting them in any unexpected way.

According to the AIS track this ship had probably been on forward propulsion for ~2.5-3nm, I cant see them having shut the engines off after turning the tugs loose...

https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9697428

quote:

Originally posted by r0gue:
Could explosives be used to fragment the bridge into pieces that could sink deep enough to become a nonissue? I suppose I doubt that.

I wonder how much fiber optics crossed that span, and the level of data communications congestion caused from the tremendous traffic-rerouting. Basically the data version of what's probably occurring on the roads in that area today, and for months to come.

I don’t know about sinking the bridge components deep enough as I don’t know enough about that harbor. Having said that, you could absolutely cut that bridge into smaller pieces with a type of explosive known as a linear shape charge. I’m fact when you see explosive demolition of a bridge, chances are they are using linear shape charges to cut the metal, almost like a supersonic oxyacetylene torch.

Frankly the importance of that harbor will overrule investigative needs in my opinion. They’ll do as much investigation as they can quickly, but those bridge remnants will be moved out of the way as quick as possible, regardless of the ramifications to whatever investigation is being conducted. I think they’ll be able to get a shipping lane in the harbor open in a couple weeks. It’s amazing what can happen when you throw enough money at a problem, and as big of an economic issue as this is, they’ll happily shovel money into the problem as quick as they can. Logistically, I wonder if it would be easier to just rebuild the bridge exactly as it was? They’ve got to have the plans and specs for it. A large amount of the time that goes into a big project like this is in the planning stage. If they just say that they’re fast tracking the project and the previous bridge design is approved for immediate construction I’ll bet they could get a new bridge up a lot quicker than some people are thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by stoic-one:

quote:

Originally posted by Jimineer:
This slow speed diesel engine thing is interesting. I wonder if the loss of power is related to shutting off the engines or starting them in any unexpected way.

According to the AIS track this ship had probably been on forward propulsion for ~2.5-3nm, I cant see them having shut the engines off after turning the tugs loose...

https://www.vesselfinder.com/?imo=9697428

To avoid any confusion, there is one main propulsion engine. There are also generator engines (guessing two or three) and perhaps a shaft driven generator.

In this situation; maneuvering in close quarters, the main engine would of course be in operation, unless there was an electrical power loss, which we saw. That will affect everything in the engine room. Also, there is an emergency generator which should have started as soon as they lost normal power. That engine supplies certain critical equipment, steering being one them.

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
First thing I thought of "Are the 2 RORO ships there that the US Transportation Command uses." I used to see them loading military equipment all the time right off of I-95. If they were there they are stuck now.

From what I can see on MarineTraffic.com, there are four 'Logistics Naval Vessels' in the harbor (the Gary I. Gordon, Antares, Denebola and Cape Washington).

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
I was talking with a former Navy diver, now commercial diver, I know.

His take is the harbor is closed a minimum of six months.

Why?

It will take three months to mobilize the people and machines necessary to clear the harbor. The machines are the long pole - finding a large floating crane or two on short notice for a long contract isn't easy. Then another three months to sufficiently clear just the channel to allow large vessel navigation.

Rebuilding is at least five, more like ten, years and will run into billions.

Then there is the inevitable litigation.

I just got off the Chesapeake Bay and saw a big floating crane being used to repair the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Maybe they will take that one and use it on the Key Bridge. If not, there are a lot of marine contractors in the area.

I counted 12 cargo ships at anchor south of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. That is their usual waiting area before going into the Baltimore Harbor. I wonder if they will wait it out or head to another port.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

Snip .

Thanks Balze, I was never aboard a ship that had variable pitch props, so I wasn’t speaking to them.

With the engine tied directly to the shaft I guess you better make damn sure the prop is in a zero position before you fire off the plant.

quote:

"It’s my intention that federal government will pay for the entire cost of reconstructing that bridge, and I expect the Congress to support my effort," he continued.

Hey, here's a novel idea. Find out who screwed up and bill them for the cleanup and rebuild, instead of just automatically dumping it on the taxpayers. At least make the fucking effort.

quote:

Originally posted by Suppressed:
I counted 12 cargo ships at anchor south of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. That is their usual waiting area before going into the Baltimore Harbor. I wonder if they will wait it out or head to another port.

They'll get re-routed ASAP to another port. Can't have product, merchandise and materials sitting, as every day sitting on the water is a loss. Norfolk is at the mouth of the Bay but much depends on their capacity vis-a-vie current schedule and what agreements the shippers have with the longshoreman...I'd wager there's some juicy overtime (Sat & Sun) coming up in the next six-months. Port of Wilmington would likely offer the least disruption pertaining to getting cargo distributed throughout the region, not sure if they have the capacity, the cranes or, the channel depth to handle what Baltimore was handing. Baltimore I believe is the nation's largest vehicle port, it's that market where the disruption will be felt.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

Snip .

Thanks Balze, I was never aboard a ship that had variable pitch props, so I wasn’t speaking to them.

With the engine tied directly to the shaft I guess you better make damn sure the prop is in a zero position before you fire off the plant.

There are interlocks that prevent the engines from starting if the pitch is not at zero. This ship was not a Controllable Pitch Propeller though.

I swear, it's absolutely maddening listening to all these pundits and podcast hosts opining about this accident as if they have any fucking clue what they're talking about. Tim Pool for instance thinks the most simple solution was this was an intentional attack.

Folks, shit happens on ships like blackouts; it happens a lot (relatively). Most people who have sailed have experienced it in one form or another, whether it's propulsion failure, steering failure, instrument failure which confuses the crew to think they actually have a steering failure causing an accident (happened very recently) or a straight up complete electrical blackout causing loss of the whole plant. I've experienced all of it. In this case, it just happened at the worst possible time. This is no fucking grand attack. I promise you. Or it's straight up crew incompetence. But no one steered this ship into that bridge on purpose. Didn't happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:I wonder if it would be easier to just rebuild the bridge exactly as it was? They’ve got to have the plans and specs for it. A large amount of the time that goes into a big project like this is in the planning stage. If they just say that they’re fast tracking the project and the previous bridge design is approved for immediate construction I’ll bet they could get a new bridge up a lot quicker than some people are thinking.

Just producing that steel will be a big deal. I would think a year plus in the supply chain to delivery process.

That video is so surreal. And I'm still tripping on the size of those ship engines! Just watched a video on the largest engine in the world, which propels the Emma Maersk container ship.

quote:

Originally posted by 229DAK:

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
First thing I thought of "Are the 2 RORO ships there that the US Transportation Command uses." I used to see them loading military equipment all the time right off of I-95. If they were there they are stuck now.

From what I can see on MarineTraffic.com, there are four 'Logistics Naval Vessels' in the harbor (the Gary I. Gordon, Antares, Denebola and Cape Washington).

Ouch, hope we don't need them anytime soon.

I can see it happening.
I was on a Navy ship that had a similar happening.
It had NO reduction gear was traveling down from Washington state when it lost Forward and Aft steering. Ran aground to a freeway and tore up the road.

Same ship another time was being tugged out from pier to San Diego harbor. I was on sister ship moored on buoys.
As the tugs released her they now saw I think was the USS Enterprise or the Connie coming in harbor.
The carrier had the right of way so the USS Sperry started to reverse engines.
Someone gave the order to release stern anchor.
Needless to say the anchor chain wrapped around the screw. I could feel the vibration on my ship.
The tug tie back up and brought her back to the pier.

Well, since this IS a gun forum...

Probably a good bet that Beretta brings in their products through Baltimore's port, since Accokeek is just down the road from there. Guess I'll hear about it from our rep soon enough.