Trump had no choice but to sign with the impending deadline / shutdown.

Because whoever shuts the government down is the loser in the end. Both sides have tried it in the past and figured that out.

all things considered, I think we would be in better shape if he had just veto'd it.

the only win was an increase in military funding - but at what price did the rest of us pay?

quote:

Originally posted by lakeray:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

It's my understanding that the bill just curtailed the 2A rights of all American citizens over 65.

What did I miss?

My error I had heard that they were trying to get a provision inserted that was about tying gun rights for those over 65 to their financial position. Apparently it was left out.

While I'm incredibly disheartened by this bullshit bill, as all of us are I suspect, we have to remember that POTUS is a master negotiator and probably has something more positive in the works.
Don't despair my friends. Let's see what our guy has up his sleeve.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
While I'm incredibly disheartened by this bullshit bill, as all of us are I suspect, we have to remember that POTUS is a master negotiator and probably has something more positive in the works.
Don't despair my friends. Let's see what our guy has up his sleeve.

Maybe that’s what he thinks about the line item veto and ditching the filibuster in the Senate, neither of which he will get easily, maybe at all.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Trump had no choice but to sign with the impending deadline / shutdown.

Because whoever shuts the government down is the loser in the end. Both sides have tried it in the past and figured that out.

While I agree a shutdown is a no win situation, What get's me is he admitted no time to read it and still signed it. Who knows how truly screwed up this thing is.

As disappointed as I am about this, after a little self reflection, I can't blame Trump for having to sign it. He is privy to information regarding our military situation around the world and we're not. It's obvious that the military funding was his primary consideration and he based his decision on that alone. I'm going to trust him on this and see if he keeps his promise that he never signs another bill like this again.

Jim

Hoo Boy.....Ol' McConnell, Ryan, and all the other fake-conservative GOP goons really showed their support for the President's agenda, didn't they? They are every bit as much part of the swamp as Schumer and Pelosi, just a different color uniform.

quote:

Originally posted by 95flhr:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Trump had no choice but to sign with the impending deadline / shutdown.

Because whoever shuts the government down is the loser in the end. Both sides have tried it in the past and figured that out.

While I agree a shutdown is a no win situation, What get's me is he admitted no time to read it and still signed it. Who knows how truly screwed up this thing is.

They know. Some staff person is assigned each section, or multiple sections around issues.

No one person has read the entire thing in toto, maybe, but collectively they know what it is. There may be some errors in references to particular sections, technical clean ups.

quote:

Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
Hoo Boy.....Ol' McConnell, Ryan, and all the other fake-conservative GOP goons really showed their support for the President's agenda, didn't they? They are every bit as much part of the swamp as Schumer and Pelosi, just a different color uniform.

That's the point I was trying to make in the other thread yesterday... this isn't Trump so much as the McConnell- Ryan, Schumer -Pelosi swamp.

quote:

Originally posted by Jimbo54:
As disappointed as I am about this, after a little self reflection, I can't blame Trump for having to sign it. He is privy to information regarding our military situation around the world and we're not. It's obvious that the military funding was his primary consideration and he based his decision on that alone. I'm going to trust him on this and see if he keeps his promise that he never signs another bill like this again.

Jim

This.

While this is not the end of the world and Trump has time left to accomplish a lot of winning I don't see how this can be shrugged off. It's a blunder.

So he signs the biggest tax cut in 40 years several months ago and then signs one of the biggest spending bills today. Sounds like somebody is going to have to come up with some cash.

These things always take awhile to play out. lets see where we are at in a year.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
Hoo Boy.....Ol' McConnell, Ryan, and all the other fake-conservative GOP goons really showed their support for the President's agenda, didn't they? They are every bit as much part of the swamp as Schumer and Pelosi, just a different color uniform.

That's the point I was trying to make in the other thread yesterday... this isn't Trump so much as the McConnell- Ryan, Schumer -Pelosi swamp.

The leaders negotiate the best they can, pushing shoving, hollering, crying, herding their cats, etc. When they have reached an agreement, unsatisfactory as it may be compared to what they want, they have enough votes to enact it.

If everyone voted no unless and until they individually were perfectly satisfied, nothing would ever pass.

Trump was involved in it, kept informed, weighed in. It was the bare minimum in the circumstances he would sign, probably, and unhappy about that. Like he said, we needed the military funding more than we didn't need the rest of it. He's the one who was elected!

It’s been said before, but it’s worth repeating again. If Schumer and Pelosi are giddy like schoolgirls, it’s a bad deal.

DJT ran on draining the swamp and cutting significant fat from the federal budget. This bill is the exact opposite of that. When there’s a .gov shutdown, suck a small portion of the government actually shuts down I s laughable. I’d just assume they shut it down to show everyone that the world wouldn’t end and that cuts could be made.

Worst case scenario, the swamp let DT know he was done unless he signed it. Not quite as bad, Trump knew how bad the US is threatened and he needed the defense spending to save us. Another level of bad was he needed the military strength in order to bargain on foreign policy.

Somewhere mixed in with how bad the above is, is the possibility he gets his jollies being in charge of such a powerful military.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
Hoo Boy.....Ol' McConnell, Ryan, and all the other fake-conservative GOP goons really showed their support for the President's agenda, didn't they? They are every bit as much part of the swamp as Schumer and Pelosi, just a different color uniform.

That's the point I was trying to make in the other thread yesterday... this isn't Trump so much as the McConnell- Ryan, Schumer -Pelosi swamp.

The leaders negotiate the best they can, pushing shoving, hollering, crying, herding their cats, etc. When they have reached an agreement, unsatisfactory as it may be compared to what they want, they have enough votes to enact it.

If everyone voted no unless and until they individually were perfectly satisfied, nothing would ever pass.

Trump was involved in it, kept informed, weighed in. It was the bare minimum in the circumstances he would sign, probably, and unhappy about that. Like he said, we needed the military funding more than we didn't need the rest of it. He's the one who was elected!

Under this theory, the win/loss column should be roughly equal between the Dems and the GOP. When we are in power we win some/lose some to get stuff passed. When the Dems are in power, they should win some and lose some in roughly the same proportion. But the arc of history, as Putz 44 might put it, seems to bend towards bigger government and more spending no matter who is in power.

I think this results from a couple factors. First, the GOP is generally bad at politics. It has trouble unifying around much of anything. Second, there are a high number of GOP caucus members who could easily caucus with the Democrats. I can't think of more than one or two Dems who could even conceivably caucus with the GOP. Third, the media is stacked against Republicans and frames debates in ways that advance the liberal agenda and cast the GOP as evil for opposing or obstructing it.

It was my hope that Trump would held the GOP find its spine but with his approval rating under 50%, his unfavorables sky high and the intensity of those who are opposed to him, the weathervanes that we call congresscritters don't know if they should stand with him or the resistance in terms of positioning themselves for the next election.

Re: “But the arc of history, as Putz 44 might put it, seems to bend towards bigger government and more spending no matter who is in power.”

No significant contrary examples come to my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by lastmanstanding:
While this is not the end of the world and Trump has time left to accomplish a lot of winning I don't see how this can be shrugged off. It's a blunder.

So he signs the biggest tax cut in 40 years several months ago and then signs one of the biggest spending bills today. Sounds like somebody is going to have to come up with some cash.

These things always take awhile to play out. lets see where we are at in a year.

This bill and the tax bill prove, as if any additional proof were necessary, that the deficit is absolutely meaningless. All the complaining about it was BS, a waste of air. Some cash may come in, somehow, but the US will continue to live on debt for the foreseeable future. All we need now to blow the thing totally out of the water (no pun intended) is another war somewhere.

Why publish photos of Schumer and Pelosi gloating? They are crowing about their victory-- why help them by moaning about how badly we were screwed? Their whole intent is to peel away Trump supporters by making us feel defeated and humiliated. Don't help the totalitarians in any way, shape, or form.

The midterms are approaching. If the Democrats win the House, they will-- as they have promised repeatedly-- immediately impeach Trump. Whatever would happen with that, think about how it would further hamper his efforts to enact his agenda.

If you can't say anything positive about the importance of bringing our military back to formidable strength-- at least do not help the Democrats in their attempt to dispirit us.

Since that photo of Schumer and Pelosi is up there anyway, have a good look at it.

A good long look.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:


Under this theory, the win/loss column should be roughly equal between the Dems and the GOP. When we are in power we win some/lose some to get stuff passed. When the Dems are in power, they should win some and lose some in roughly the same proportion. But the arc of history, as Putz 44 might put it, seems to bend towards bigger government and more spending no matter who is in power.

I think this results from a couple factors. First, the GOP is generally bad at politics. It has trouble unifying around much of anything. Second, there are a high number of GOP caucus members who could easily caucus with the Democrats. I can't think of more than one or two Dems who could even conceivably caucus with the GOP. Third, the media is stacked against Republicans and frames debates in ways that advance the liberal agenda and cast the GOP as evil for opposing or obstructing it.

It was my hope that Trump would held the GOP find its spine but with his approval rating under 50%, his unfavorables sky high and the intensity of those who are opposed to him, the weathervanes that we call congresscritters don't know if they should stand with him or the resistance in terms of positioning themselves for the next election.

I am told that the House has passed all sorts of bills reflecting much of (our) agenda, repeal of Obamacare, various gun friendly measures, etc. These are piled up over at the Senate, “where good ideas go to die!”

The Senate is the sticking point. Why people insist on making fools of themselves reciting over and over that “we control the Senate” is remarkable, a tribute to some phenomena like “in one ear out and the other.” Republicans control the Senate where a simple majority is needed, like Majority Leader, committee chairs, etc. To actually pass legislation to send to the President, 60 votes for cloture is required, if the minority wants. Right now, with the Resist movement, they want. Nothing will get through without the God Damned Commie pound of flesh, no wall, slow roll judges and other officers. It’s chicken shit, but one of these days, the shoe will be on the other foot and the GOP will be chicken shit over something they want, amendment of the Constitution to take out those pesky amendments or something.

Until Harry the Bomb thrower used the nuclear option, that meant confirmations, too, were or could be blocked. Heh, heh, heh. With the Biden Rule, a critical seat on the Supreme Court was saved. That ought to be a sobering experience for those who say “kill the filibuster rules.” These things cut both ways. The whole thing was put together to suppress tyranny, and has been marginally successful so far, with some close calls.

The arc of history, as you call it, is for bigger government. The fight over the good old days, pre-Roosevelt New Deal, the days of Coolidge style, was lost decades ago. Too many people have a stake in the current arrangement, a government job, a government contract, an entitlement, a benefit. Moreover, people want government to do these things, help put the mother in law in a nursing home, take care of the pregnant teen daughter, provide a free abortion, keep the idiot neighbor from parking 13 cars on his lawn, stop the landlord from raising the rent promiscuously, pay unemployment so the man can make payments on his dual cab dual wheel enormous pick up truck when his hours are cut at work, or he is laid off, stop the cable company from cheating him on his cable and internet charges, pay him to not grow corn on the family farm, etc. For all too many, lazy and irresponsible is cool. They are deserving, too, you know, and if you diss them, they vote against you, and find somebody more sensitive, more compassionate, more attune to the nuances. The number of folks who support a return to Coolidgean Days is minuscule.