SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Teacher who fed puppy to snapping turtle found not guilty of animal cruelty
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
Different slant: The teacher who fed a live puppy to a snapping turtle found not guilty of cruelty to animals. Say what? There is a difference, to me at any rate, between a wild snapper catching and eating live fish, or the odd mammal, and some some nutcase doing what this asshole did. Yeah, nature can seem cruel at times. But, in my world, feeding a live puppy to a snapper is cruelty. And, as I recall, the normal diet of snappers is largely fish. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Member |
Humans took in and partnered with wolves for mutual benefit, according to some research, as early as 300,000 years ago, but definitely more that 40,000 years ago. Over time they became dogs. Its commonly accepted that the human hunter/gatherer groups that had dogs, had a sufficiently higher probability of survival, that the prescence of dogs affected the evolution of humans. The humans who liked and kept dogs, had more and better food, and didn't get taken by predators and other human groups as often. Like it or not, right or wrong, most of us have a deep emotional connection with dogs, that we dont have with the animals we raise for food or consider pests. Lots of guys, here and elsewhere, would happily beat a guy down for treating dogs as if they were feeder animals. They can't help feeling that way, its an emotional reaction that increased their ancestors survival probability to the point that the empathy for dogs grew stronger over the course of human evolution. Plenty of people are born without that empathy. Old genetics try and pop back up all the time. Hell, even the genetic coding for the tail, mych more ancient than the empathy for dogs, pops up occasionally. People who lack that empathy for dogs might not have had as high a survival probability 10,000 years ago, but in modern times we can reasonably expect it to become more common. | |||
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Stangosaurus Rex |
Very Vickish of the guy. ___________________________ "I Get It Now" Beth Greene | |||
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I grew up about sixty miles from Preston, Id. A very rural area. Some farmers and ranchers looked at their dogs as members of the family. Others looked at them as tools to get a job done. If a "tool" dog became ill they would take it the vet if was good at its job. If the dog wasn't so good they would put the dog down. Oh, the humanity. I find neither side morally superior to the other. Farming and ranching is a tough and unforgiving business. My guess is that half of the students that watched this found it abhorrent. The other half probably had zero fucks to give. I find it funny as hell that the prosecutor actually thought he could sit a jury in that area that would convict. What a fucking idiot. He must be a city slicker that just moved into town. | |||
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Member |
A few things. One, are rodents the natural diet of a reptile? How about a Gazelle? Normal diet for a lion or tiger? And this "the puppy was sick and would die anyway" commentary. Until that's confirmed by a far more reliable source than that noted in the story, I'm not accepting it as fact. The reality is, we as a society have afforded dogs and cats a position in our lives and culture other animals do not occupy. As such they are to be treated more humanely and afforded an additional measure of dignity over say a rodent. Grab your torch and pitchfork and meet me at this guy's home. He's earned it. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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Certified All Positions |
There are some very PETAish arguments in this thread. It's OK to humanize animals and to be concerned. But be honest, that is a luxury, and not at all Natural. I'd distill it to this: It is the Teacher/Student relationship, and the permission of the parents or lack thereof, that makes this abhorrent. The comparison to Vick doesn't wash. Vick was profiting and/or pleasuring himself off a network of cruelty and other like minded sadists. I personally, would not have done what this man did, whether anyone was watching or not. But, it was both the audience and who they were that is of concern, and makes him unfit for his role. Violence is a part of nature, and a part of life. How we teach our kids about that, should be ours to decide and control. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Initial emotional reaction is that stringing the guy up on the spot is far too good for him. Logically, I have to agreed with KevinCW, amhaynie, and jhe888. The laws we live under treat dogs as property. However much we consider them family, however much we might like to be able to use deadly force to protect just as we could to protect our children, that is in direct conflict with our laws. Logically, that is probably a good thing, even if it doesn’t “feel” that way emotionally. I don’t agree with his actions and wouldn’t want him teaching kids, but that doesn’t necessarily make what he did illegal. ETA: I have to agree arc nailed it while I was typing, cutting right to the point I couldn’t articulate, but agree is central. | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
I'm going to be upfront and admit that while usually rational, I have no interest in being rational about this and seeing opposing views. Trying to justify this as being the cycle of life is about like putting two fighting chickens in a cage and then claiming that when one kills the other that it is natural because they fight in the wild. This was a sick fuck that intentionally let an animal suffer. Gents, there is no justification for this. I'm sorry but there is not. This "call of the wild" bullshit is just that. Either we're compassionate, or we're not. Pick one. Because defending this isn't compassion. | |||
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My argument is that the guy let the dog drown and passed it off as nature taking it's course. Is drowning considered a peaceful way to go? Sick,injured or not, if you are under water and can't breath, you will fight for a breath. Sure, life is cruel but allowing something to drown is more cruel. | |||
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Member |
That puppy was at this persons mercy and he fed it to a reptile. "He's just a rancher"- horseshit, he did this to look cool to a teenager. "Ninja kick the damn rabbit" | |||
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posting without pants |
Admittedly, I dont know much about the feeding of turtles. If it really was just a drowning and not feeding imam inclined to change my mind and agree with you. Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up." | |||
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| Certified All Positions |
So you're a Leftist? Because that is the crux of their argument about, well, pick a topic. You're offended, your values are incensed, so you won't engage? You're a Leftist. If you're going to shut down everyone else on the grounds of moral outrage, you're no better than the fringe of the right, and the very upset blue "wave" of our nation right now. We rarely disagree, my friend. I don't think you really see "support" for what this man did, in this thread. But, if you've found an excuse to shut down avenues of discussion or debate, you've created a microcosm of the "strategy" of the left. Life, on almost any level, isn't black and white, or black and red if you have that kind of chess board. We try to do right as we live our lives. But, if I can quote: "Life is pain, princess.....anyone who says differently is selling something." Am I an apologist, a realist, or an accomplice? Where should we file everyone who responds here? As friend or enemy? Is that distinction actually necessary? Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Member |
One of the many reasons I frequent this forum is that there are times when I have a gut reaction to something but, because I try to be fair, attempt to look at the other side of the issue. Kevin wrote what I was thinking and my brain acknowledged that perhaps there was a fair point in his words, but it's the posts from jljones, patw, and others that show the holes in that logic and help align my brain with what my heart tels me is wrong. | |||
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Bad dog! |
This was not a "natural phenomenon". This sicko put a puppy into a tank of water with a snapping turtle, then had the kids watch it suffer an agonizing death by drowning. He did not show them film of a lion running down a gazelle. "Should be ours to decide and control". Sorry, no. You could stage a new fight to the death every day- a dog against a cat, a chicken against a fox-- and you have no right to "decide and control" that kind of torture to make the point that "nature is violent." I would bet anything that this twisted prick has done all kinds of cruel things to defenseless animals. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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Apparently many of his fellow citizens totally disagree with the most of the emotional responses found in this thread. Link I wonder why? Is the entire county puppy haters? Do they have some inside info the emos here don't have? | |||
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Wait, what? |
This. The guy is a piece of shit that committed this act to shock children. He wasn't trying to teach anyone anything except cruelty. “Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown | |||
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| Member |
Emo? Give me a little more perspective on my emo-ness, if you would be so kind. For me, it comes down to this: This "teacher" is way too into this. If I had a snake (and I wouldn't) and its diet consisted of mice and rats, I would feed it mice and rats. I would not, however, put the feeding on as a matter of routine in a classroom. I did see this was an after hours event but it still went on in view of the students. So Preston ID, kids are well versed in things eating other things? Great! Why bring more of it into the classroom? What educational value does it have? The bottom line for me here is: Do I want this guy to instruct my kid? Nope! End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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A puppy, or even a dog is very different from a coyote. The distinction is pretty simple, while both canids they aren't the same species. Also, one is a wild animal, breeding an out of control population. In addition, shooting an animal that is free is different than securing it helplessly and introducing the cause of its death. A better analogy would be locking a coyote in a cage and submerging it in water. Besides, i grew up in the south around various types of snapping turtles. Whatever the articles report, though technically drowning may have been the mechanism of death, im certain there was severe trauma first. A snapping turtle bites quickly with a deep penetrating powerful bite, then pulls its prey under to bleed out / drown. And its not in the same universe as feeding rats to a snake or turtle. A feeder rat is specifically bred and raised for that purpose. Like cattle or chickens. Not all animals were created equal. If they were, then theres no reason humans can be on that list as well. That it isn't codified in law is irrelevant. Theres a difference between right/wrong and legal. Congressmen can legally commit insider trading. Heinrich Himmler was hanged for doing things that were legal. Turns out, someone else from somewhere else thought different, and had the means to back it up. Nevermind. The post I was replying to seems to have disappeared. | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
We have taken grouse with rifles as well. Head shots. Body shooting a grouse with expanding bullets simply turns them into a ball of bloody feathers. BTDT, once. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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| Member |
Maybe, just maybe, the reason this guy has so much community support is because his students finish the year with a excellent biology education. FYI, that's why they are in his classroom. The community he lives in has an opposing view to yours and they are in a much better position to judge. You know nothing about the teacher but have offered the position you don't want him teaching your kids now matter how good he might be. Some in this thread have stated they don't want him around kids at all. Period. At least one has stated they want his life ruined. At least one has said they should feed another members kids to wolves. Reread the thread and I'm sure you can find more examples. Pretty emo from the 100,000' view I have of the situation. I'm not saying whether you're right or wrong but I think you (and many more in this thread) know very little of the situation and are expressing very strong opinions based on nothing but emotion. I'll bet very few posting here (including you) knew he had strong community support. | |||
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