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| Fuimus |
Whatever happened to seeing a weapon before you shoot? | |||
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| Member |
Yeah, let's start with the caller that started this mess. Hopefully he will be charged with murder. | |||
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| Fuimus |
Are you joking? The video is self-explanatory. | |||
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Bad dog! |
Some things said in this thread seem to me to be way off base. To generalize about "police" from this one instance is not at all warranted. I don't think this is at all typical police behavior. It would be like condemning all gun owners because some morons go to Starbucks with ARs. Suggesting that police want to murder innocent people is... just bizarre, and beneath contempt. I am in general strongly pro-police, and I realize that this was a very strange and confused situation, but the only way I can see it is that it is horribly wrong. An innocent man goes to his front door to see what all the commotion is and is met by blinding lights and cross-talk commands. Then he is shot and killed. To anyone who thinks this is an ambiguous situation, might be a "good shoot" or maybe not: imagine this is your brother, father, friend. Now tell me what you think. I have lived in conditions of total anarchy, and if for no other reason than what I saw and know from that, I will always support and value the police. But this shooting was an atrocity. ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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| Member |
This! The crazy part is that the Deputy Police Chief seemed to imply that the video released was meant to bolster the department's position that this was a justified shooting. The Deputy Chief also kept referencing that the victim kept "lowering his hands to his waistband" but technically when anyone lowers their hands to their sides it could be considered "lowering his hands to his waistband." And then the kicker...the victim "suddenly pulled them (his hands) back up towards the officers in the east..." then the "Officer on the north side of the street feared the male had just pulled a weapon from his waist band, retrieved a gun, and was in the process of pointing (the gun) towards the officers to the east." So this guy was such a threat, that only one officer, the officer presumably furthest away from the victim, was the only one who decided it would be a good time to shoot? Not the officers to the east that were allegedly staring down the barrel of this gun that was just pulled? That just doesn't make any sense to me. It sounds like one jumpy officer made a very bad decision that resulted in an innocent man losing his life. There has to be repercussions for this behavior. | |||
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| Member |
Was thinking that Sigmonkeys screed could be automatically stickied every time one of these things gets posted. (Slightly revised with generalities instead of specifics).
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| Member |
Thank you, Mars_Attacks. I would like to see what happened before that video segment starts, but from the looks of that particular video there's a LEO that I wouldn't want knocking on my door. As to the fuckhead who made the swatcall---throw the book at him. Note to self: If you see bright, flashing blue-white lights outside your home, stay inside, call 911 and ask WTF is going on. *************************** Knowing more by accident than on purpose. | |||
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| Member |
Where are the videos from the other offices present and how many were there? | |||
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| Member |
At the press conference, the Deputy Chief ran through a litany of excuses as to why no other video would be released anytime soon. | |||
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| Member |
Sounds like the excuse given when Cassius Clay knocked out Sonny Liston. *************************** Knowing more by accident than on purpose. | |||
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| Something wild is loose  |
Another consideration, apparently also ignored by the responding officers, is that the man on the porch could have been one of the "hostages." Actually, given what the officers knew, that would have been more likely, and I would guess that shooting a hostage for a SWAT team would be right up there as a big Bozo no-no.... "And gentlemen in England now abed, shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day" | |||
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| Member |
^^^^^^^^^^^ This Why isn't all video from each and every camera on the scene released? If a video is showing sky because an officer was staring at clouds, well that is also information. An independent over-site organization controlling video/audio evidence in our future? Operating outside of PD and local DA control. Hopefully the availability of actual scene video is adding to training scenarios. The criminally stupid idiot that "swat called", along with the other two gamers, need to win the why not to "swat call" lottery. Shining examples for other dolts. Local politics/DA/Judges that refuse to enforce the law, are hurting Americans and police officers? Police force funding levels below what a qualified officer needs to live in the area, or reduced expectations/job requirements to meet quotas, are hurting Americans and police officers? | |||
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| Bad dog! |
A question to LEOs: I have known about "swatting" for several months at least, from this board. Are police departments generally aware of "swatting"? ______________________________________________________ "You get much farther with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone." | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Generally, yes. It's really not a new concept. Just a more sophisticated (and more dangerous) twist on the old "bomb threat" calls. | |||
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| Freethinker |
The issue has been reported in law enforcement circles for probably a couple of years, as I recall. How widely individuals are aware of it or think of it if a call comes in is, of course, impossible to know. Like many such things, the awareness level rises and peaks quickly when it’s first reported. If no other incidents occur within a short time, then it all drops off. And it’s also impossible at this point to know whether a vague awareness of the possibility would have affected the law enforcement response. ► 6.4/93.6 ___________ “We are Americans …. Together we have resisted the trap of appeasement, cynicism, and isolation that gives temptation to tyrants.” — George H. W. Bush | |||
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| Unapologetic Old School Curmudgeon  |
This... I wake up to my house surrounded in flashing lights I'll call 911, I won't come out. Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day | |||
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safe & sound |
You'll have to come out eventually. They aren't just going to go away because you tell them everything is OK on the phone. We once had to evacuate an entire restaurant in the middle of lunch due to a police response to a hold up alarm. One of the times I found myself at the business end of a police officer's weapon. It was a mistake made by the alarm company. The manager identified herself, I identified myself, and the alarm technician identified herself. Didn't matter to them. For all they knew bad guys were holding hostages and making us come outside to try to get the police to go away. And I don't fault them for that. They were right. It wasn't the case, but it was certainly a reasonable possibility. I was raised to treat everybody equally and I try hard to do so. I make every attempt to be as consistent as possible in everything that I do. But on this topic I see a huge divide among others. There's another story posted today about several officers killed along with other presumably innocent people, and the bad guy responsible for the killing. I see a lot of "prayers" and support for those officers in that thread, but barely a mention of the other innocents who lost their lives during the very same incident. And here in this story we have an innocent life taken, and I'm not seeing the same concern. No prayers here. A few "well, let's wait for the investigation". And that is the problem. Despite the claims that it's not an "us vs. them" issue, it clearly is. One group is not being treated equally to the other. I believe it is horrible when an innocent life is taken. I believe it's horrible when it's a police officer's life, or the life of some guy minding his business and playing a video game. Yet many here do not act as if it's equal. When it's an officer killed there is extreme indignation. Yet when it's another innocent person, it's "eh". I don't understand. Against a bad guy an Officer's safety is certainly more important than the offender's. But when it comes to other innocent persons, shouldn't the safety of that person be equally as important? Shouldn't their life be equally as valuable? | |||
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Ammoholic |
I agree with this part. I feel no more or less sad for the slain officer in Denver as this dude checking out the flashing lights and commotion in front of his house. Both suck big-time and the people responsible in both cases should pay dearly. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| safe & sound |
And in this story, the fault likes with the schmuck who called it in. He, all by himself, has destroyed several lives by his actions. None of them deserved it. The guy on the porch didn't deserve to get shot, and the officer who pulled the trigger didn't deserve to be in the position he finds himself in today. None of this had to happen which is what makes it as bad as it is. | |||
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delicately calloused |
Well said. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier | |||
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