quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer: You gonna let them get whatever item they have and present it at you? Because I wouldnt, and I'd go home to my family, which a good Agency would care more about.

This is the attitude that concerned me. Maybe you should stay home.

quote:

Originally posted by skyline009:

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer: You gonna let them get whatever item they have and present it at you? Because I wouldnt, and I'd go home to my family, which a good Agency would care more about.

This is the attitude that concerned me. Maybe you should stay home.

Agreed; it's nothing less than demanding blanket indemnification with the appeal to reason of "wanting to go home safe to my family". Hell, we all want that. Even those being investigated.

That video shows a murder.

Both the swat cop and the gamer need to be in the same cell.

I'm sure the INNOCENT victim of police murder wanted to be home safe with his family.

quote:

Originally posted by skyline009:

quote:

Originally posted by fatmanspencer: You gonna let them get whatever item they have and present it at you? Because I wouldnt, and I'd go home to my family, which a good Agency would care more about.

This is the attitude that concerned me. Maybe you should stay home.

I almost posted about this earlier, and then deleted it. But my father, a Border Patrolman and then later a Fed, told me he had a fair number of occasions where shooting someone would have been justified, but he was glad he didn't do it. He still came home. Shit, he even got to retire.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
That video shows a murder.

Both the swat cop and the gamer need to be in the same cell.

I'm sure the INNOCENT victim of police murder wanted to be home safe with his family.

I agree 100% with Mars Attacks. That LEO should be in jail and the county pay a few million so perhaps people will think twice before pulling the trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
That video shows a murder.

Both the swat cop and the gamer need to be in the same cell.

I'm sure the INNOCENT victim of police murder wanted to be home safe with his family.

http://investigations.myajc.com/overtheline/

Here, chew on this.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I won't be arguing about the actions of the SWAT guys.

They would not have been there if not for the deliberate and calculated actions of the "swatter".

And not a lawyer, but I sure hope conspiracy charges can be brought and case made for that, filing false report, the FCC or federal laws involving the un-lawful use of the telephone, and any and all things that case can be made.

People who believe and act as if their actions are of no consequence to themselves press all my buttons.

His attitude is sociopath, his actions are way past the exit of reprehensible, and in my mind, clearly premeditated murder.

He is as guilty as someone putting a single round in a revolver, spinning the cylinder, putting to someone's head and pulling the trigger resulting in their death, and then trying to claim it is not his fault, but that of the manufacture for allowing that action to be accomplished.

I want him off my planet.

This is perhaps the best comment in this entire thread. Nicely said, sigmonkey.

I understand police and first responders take risks that us civilians would never be able to handle.

However, with the release of body camera footage we have seen some really bad situations come to life.

What is shocking to me is the very harsh contrast in some of the incidents. We have all see occasions where the officer/officers give a suspect multiple options to end a confrontation peacefully.

Then there are videos like this that just don’t make sense.

Then figure the video of the guy in the hotel...

The lady that reported the assault behind her house ...

Now this guy playing COD.

Is it bad training? Bad power trip?

At the end of the day, this officer was wrong. He got it completely wrong. None of the other officers fired. A single shot to the head. Officer was judge, jury and executioner.

quote:

He's referring to having been the victim of an attack, in which he was ambushed by a gunman.

I was the victim of an ambush in the same vein as a police officer involved in an ambush. It was a direct result of my job.

I've been shot at 3 times, ambushed by a gunman once, had a handful of physical encounters, and came close to getting run over by cars several times. The biggest difference between myself and a police officer in these scenarios is that I was forced to face these risks unarmed. The only life saving tool I had at my disposal was mounted on top of my shoulders, and after I figured the risks were no longer worth the reward I moved on to other things.

If anybody wants particulars I'd be happy to share them openly on the forum or privately in e-mail. My address in in my profile.

I have also had police point their guns at me in my current capacity, and I'm confident it will happen again in the future. I have a vested interest in officers who are calm, level headed, and not jumpy, anxious, or nervous.

I think the problem here lies in the training. I have several friends who have been through the local police academy, and several more acquaintances. They are taught that they can be killed at any second, by anybody, and that lesson is drilled into them using real life examples. The problem as I see it is that those examples are statistically low. You're making officers who are fearful for their lives when there's no need for them to be afraid.

I don't want to see any officer injured or killed, but that risk comes along with the job. I definitely do not want to see innocent parties get injured or die. As an officer, that's the risk you accept when you sign up for the job. The poor guy on his porch didn't have anything to do with the events that transpired.

In my opinion it is unacceptable to have this type of collateral damage. This is why I favor seeing a weapon prior to shooting as opposed to shooting because somebody isn't moving the way you would prefer.

Yeah, that was fucked up.

I get officer safety, but LEOs signed up voluntarily to do a dangerous job (as do many other professions, mind you).

Officers with cover, concealment, rifles, and friends vs a man on a porch with no visible weapon (and no weapon at all, mind you).

I just don't see the urgency to shoot someone who may not even be the perp you are looking for, just the first person to come to the door.

^^^^^

Heck Rhino,

Didn’t you and your pilot launch a missle at every unknown radar contact rather than waiting to identify it?

After all, you wanted to go back to the carrier.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
In my opinion it is unacceptable to have this type of collateral damage. This is why I favor seeing a weapon prior to shooting as opposed to shooting because somebody isn't moving the way you would prefer.

You know, as a grown man who might've lost a parent if they didn't get it exactly right on the job, I think I would have preferred to lose a parent in the line of duty rather than deal with whatever fallout would have followed a bad shoot. If you're a cop, great, you can have your opinion about what it means to "go home at the end of the day." Because what's waiting for you is your family, who will have to deal with the shit that's eating you alive. I might know a thing or two about that also.

Sort of reminds me of the Daniel Shaver shooting. No weapon, and jumpy cops

Here's one cops opinion on that matter, and I agree with his conclusion

https://youtu.be/qOemQG8M7g4

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chino101,

I agree with Mars.

Two guilty parties to lock up for murder.

One innocent victim to bury.

Psychologically speaking, cops and criminals are very similar on a MMPI but cops score higher on CONTROL but this one, maybe not so much....that’s flat out murder.

And that police department! Ever heard of procedures, of any kind at all? Ha. Good luck in court. My advice, settle quick - settle big.

As for the “caller”, he deserves no mention - just a goodbye.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Yeah, that was fucked up.

I get officer safety, but LEOs signed up voluntarily to do a dangerous job (as do many other professions, mind you).

Officers with cover, concealment, rifles, and friends vs a man on a porch with no visible weapon (and no weapon at all, mind you).

I just don't see the urgency to shoot someone who may not even be the perp you are looking for, just the first person to come to the door.

But the officer felt askeered, what was he to do?

I understand officers have a stressful environment, they are geared for self preservation. Imagine the now dead innocent victim. He was minding his own business, steps onto his front porch, is immediately inundated with lights/noise/confusion. It takes a split second for his mind to process the data, too late, boom, you're dead.

There is an ample supply of "you done screwed da pooch" in every aspect of this story.

The victim's family better become rich, or there's no justice in this world.

The assholes that set this train in motion should never breathe air outside a prison again.

The cop who fired the lethal shot should loose his freedom as well, though for something less than the rest of his worthless life (e.g., let him out the day before he dies).

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
^^^^^

Heck Rhino,

Didn’t you and your pilot launch a missle at every unknown radar contact rather than waiting to identify it?

After all, you wanted to go back to the carrier.

Yeah we blew everything up real good, all the time, because we got scared.

Oh wait, we obeyed ROE even when it put us at risk.


---Break break---


If you can't deal with a stressful environment with weapons, injury, death, then being a cop isn't a profession for you.

Bad all the way around....like the cop in PHX

All it shows me is to never answer the door.....call 911 and talk to them, I don't feel like rolling the dice with a cop at my door

A sad state of affairs

And if they breach, I hope they only shoot me

It may sound melodramatic but there have been too many examples of innocent unarmed people being shot in their homes to ignore.

And a small pet peeve, unless you are subject to UCMJ you are a civilian.

quote:

All it shows me is to never answer the door.....call 911 and talk to them, I don't feel like rolling the dice with a cop at my door

Agreed. Rolls right up with never talk to the police (or any nervous person with a gun)

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
The body cam footage really bothers me. Exactly what should the dead man have done?

For any LEO's who want to step in this quagmire, I really would love a question to this answer. I meant it honestly.

My own inclination after this shooting and Daniel Shaver's shooting is, if met by officers shouting commands, I'm throwing myself face-down prone on the ground spread eagle and shouting "Don't shoot, I'm compliant!" Would that work, or would that get me killed? This is real "Hands up, don't shoot" shit right here, and nobody is rioting, reasonable white people are asking reasonable questions.

Obviously, it seems that trying to crawl on your knees with your ankles crossed while following directions is a good way to get killed, as is stepping out your front door. Chongosuerte has situational story along similar lines that he posts from time to time, and this is the nightmare version of it.