quote:

A. Move to the right when he was on your ass, but you do not have to if it was either unsafe or no place to move to the right. (however, if he "zoomed" around, there needed to be space on the right for him to do so).

He also doesn't have to do that if he's already moving as fast as possible due to traffic in front of him. If there's nobody in front of you, and nobody to your right, you're in the wrong lane.

I get people that try this on occasion with me because they can't see around my truck and assume I'm just hanging out in the left lane. I'm not going to slow down or yield to them just so they can go the same speed in front of me. I also don't want them cutting in with feet to spare causing a dangerous situation for both of us.

For a “trained litigator”, you sound more like a ten aged drama queen.

Listen, if you wanna tailgate agitated drivers in heavy traffic & get guns waved at you, go for it.

You asked for opinions here. Most folks are telling you that you were somewhat wrong yourself in this affair. You are defending you bad actions instead of heeding good advice.

He is not “one of us”, he is an idiot with a gun. It is guys like that that give power to the anti gunners. Getting guns out of the hands of a uncontrolled hot head like that helps responsible guns owners keep their firearms.

I’d follow up with the police.

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:
For a “trained litigator”, you sound more like a ten aged drama queen.

Listen, if you wanna tailgate agitated drivers in heavy traffic & get guns waved at you, go for it.

You asked for opinions here. Most folks are telling you that you were somewhat wrong yourself in this affair. You are defending you bad actions instead of heeding good advice.

Actually, I specifically stated I wasn’t interested in opinions on the events themselves. I stated I was fine with how it went. I’m not even sure how many times I’ve said that now. Ive also said I accept that some folks think i was in the wrong. I simply dont agree with them, but I can completely understand their point of view. Now what? Should I call them names? I think you and a few others are worked up that I don’t see it the way you see it. You’re all out of sorts and being rude simply because I won’t say “you’re right, I was wrong.” You’ll be ok even though I don’t agree with you. You couple folks will still wake up tomorrow just because I don’t agree. Deep breaths.

You’re still calling me names. Does it make you feel better? It doesn’t make you look impressive to me.

a1abdj, yes, I drive a truck too, so I moved to the edge of the lane so he could see the traffic in front of me. Didn’t seem to help him understand the state of affairs though. I think he wanted to bully me so I’d move over, then bully the next guy, and the next guy and the next guy...until he got through traffic. I just wasn’t going to let him bully me and move over. Some won’t agree, but that’s ok, we all are different with these kinds of things.

Monkey, to answer your question, he passed on the right when two cars exited. So he used that space that was created. It was a small window, but he made it. Could I have gotten over in it? Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

quote:

Originally posted by maximus_flavius:
It’d be funny as hell if you followed up on this & caught some charges yourself.

What charge could the OP possibly catch here? What law did he break?

Reckless driving here or aggressive driving.. His laws may be different though.

You could confess to a cop and beg him to write you for it here. If he didn't see it, it didn't happen. In the OP's case, if the cop had seen it, he'd have had bigger fish to fry.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
Actually, I specifically stated I wasn’t interested in...

Just an observation reading this thread. I think it'd be safe to say we've probably all been there when we've done something behind the wheel that looking back, wasn't the best choice (I know I can). If you're OK with your actions then cool. I wasn't there and wouldn't begin to tell you that you were right or wrong.

However, just an unsolicited suggestion from a neutral bystander. If you want the commenting on your actions to stop maybe it'd be better just to let this thread die out. You have your opinion of your actions, others have theirs. By defending yourself to every reply it just comes across (to me at least) as either being hard headed/stubborn or maybe insecure. You're arguing. On the internet. (insert applicable meme here) Let it go man. Just my opinion.

Glad things turned out OK for you.

Fair enough mojo. There’s a saying, don’t wrestle with a pig in mud. When it’s over, you’re both dirty, but the pig had fun. In some ways this is rolling in the mud for me...but I’m the pig.

I’m not worked up or mad or anything like that. I just enjoy the banter to a degree. The back and forth and debat is what I like.

Also, I do think a couple folks need it pointed out that they’re being pretty damn rude for no reason. They’re all butt hurt because I don’t agree with them, and won’t repent to their liking.

quote:

Ok, I get it. You don’t like me.

Well, I like you, esdunbar. When I first started posting here, you were welcoming and friendly. And generally I enjoy your posts.

I'm not even going to touch the specific incident itself. I think that has been beaten to death. Just a couple of general reflections.

I have been tailgated, cut off, and responded aggressively. Then, years ago, I realized that I was giving assholes power over me. I was letting them pull me into their pissed-off reality. I was feeling fine, then this asshole on my bumper took over control of my emotions. Huh. You know what? Not gonna let that happen again. I will do what I can to let the asshole go on his way. Let him keep his misery. (It's either that or coolly and calmly kill him. )

But I also realized that I could not make this decision when the situation arose. I am much too likely to get drawn in. I have had to make it a sort of pact I have with myself. Let the asshole go. I don't want to jinx it... I'm human... but so far it works well for me.

One final point. You had the misfortune of crossing paths with an asshole. But there are also psychos out there. In fact, it was an experience I had with a gen-u-ine psycho that made me realize that I had a life worth living and he did not. So I was not going to make a bad trade.

You've been on here longer than I so you know that sooner or later everybody takes a wallop or two. You put some ice on it. Under it all, we look out for one another.

quote:

Originally posted by justjoe:

quote:

Ok, I get it. You don’t like me.

Well, I like you, esdunbar. When I first started posting here, you were welcoming and friendly. And generally I enjoy your posts.

I'm not even going to touch the specific incident itself. I think that has been beaten to death. Just a couple of general reflections.

I have been tailgated, cut off, and responded aggressively. Then, years ago, I realized that I was giving assholes power over me. I was letting them pull me into their pissed-off reality. I was feeling fine, then this asshole on my bumper took over control of my emotions. Huh. You know what? Not gonna let that happen again. I will do what I can to let the asshole go on his way. Let him keep his misery. (It's either that or coolly and calmly kill him. )

But I also realized that I could not make this decision when the situation arose. I am much too likely to get drawn in. I have had to make it a sort of pact I have with myself. Let the asshole go. I don't want to jinx it... I'm human... but so far it works well for me.

One final point. You had the misfortune of crossing paths with an asshole. But there are also psychos out there. In fact, it was an experience I had with a gen-u-ine psycho that made me realize that I had a life worth living and he did not. So I was not going to make a bad trade.

You've been on here longer than I so you know that sooner or later everybody takes a wallop or two. You put some ice on it. Under it all, we look out for one another.

Good post!

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by remsig:
esdunbar,

Do you have your CCW in Ohio? If so, when you went to you your class for your license, do you remember the part where one of the criteria for using your ccw was not escalating the situation?

I know you didn't pull a gun, but you sure did escalate by tailgating him and if you had to pull a gun would have been just as liable as the other guy.

I was actually a criminal defense attorney for my first 4 years out of law school. I know the law very well still. And no, I did not do anything that would prevent me from using deadly force if he shot at me or took it any further than he did. I’m very confident in that from a legal perspective.

You are correct though, one can loose the right to defend themselves with deadly force. I didn’t actually do anything. I stayed where I was....and that’s not the type of thing that negates the right to deadly force anyways.

Let's get off the "he said, she said" part for a min, and off the "I'm right and damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead for a minute" here.

Now, Dunbar, I've known you on the forum for a while, and I have no ideas that you are nothing but a responsible gun owner, and can think of no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to continue as such... (Understand I bring this up because some STATES ARE STARTING TO DO SO, AND THEY REALLY DON"T GIVE TWO SHITS ABOUT WHAT I THINK>

That all said, you risk your permit by getting in pissing contests. I understand your prespective, and I get his too. SOMEONE, if not both is percieved as teh "looser" and the "winner." ANd As I harp on, day after day, JUST BEING FIRST TO REPORT IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE YOU THE VICTIM!

If you're gonna carry a gun, keep your mouth in check too... Otherwise if you spend enough before you get killed/arrested or whatever, no one could stay there and try to summon your ghose,

Disengage any way possible. There is no upside to "winning" with people like that.
A few months ago I was traveling on the interstate out of town in a small city. I was in the right lane and there was enough traffic so you couldn't change your speed or lane easily. I came past a short entrance ramp and a thug looking guy in a Toyota came abruptly down the ramp right next to me and seemed to take offense that I didn't just jam on the brakes to open up a spot for him. I was driving a diesel dually towing a 40 foot trailer.
He proceeded to fall in behind like he should have originally, then got into the left lane by jamming up some cars there and soon passed me. As soon as his rear bumper passed my front bumper he turned sharply in front of me, and braked hard trying to force me off the road. Major adrenaline surge.
I pulled out my phone and called 911 and had the phone on top of the wheel so he could see me calling. I also was snapping photos and video while I waited for them to answer. The operator was of poor quality, let's leave it there, and it was clear LE help wasn't close by.
My firearm was kept below anyones sight but immediately accessible if it had been needed.
We drove along with traffic until the next exit, about 3 miles, then he got off. He continued to try to provoke me the whole time and clearly didn't seem to care much for his own safety judging by the disparity of our vehicles (GVW of mine about 19,000 lbs. his about 3000).
Again, there was no winning with this guy. What ended up happening was the best possible outcome that I had any control over.
Even though I could have crushed him in his car or and had the firepower to not be at a disadvantage, those would have been (negative) life changing events for both of us regardless of who "won".

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:

got into the left lane by jamming up some cars there and soon passed me. As soon as his rear bumper passed my front bumper he turned sharply in front of me, and braked hard trying to force me off the road.

This type of thing is why I turn my dash camera on even before I start the engine.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
He proceeded to fall in behind like he should have originally, then got into the left lane by jamming up some cars there and soon passed me. As soon as his rear bumper passed my front bumper he turned sharply in front of me, and braked hard trying to force me off the road. Major adrenaline surge.

This very same thing happened to me a few years ago, and I started running a dash cam the next day. It would have been hard to explain my rear-ending someone without video of what they did to cause it. But that video would be proof positive that they were actively attempting to cause an accident. I think the law and insurance companies frown on that.

quote:

I didn't slow or hit my brakes. I stayed on his bumper, where he put himself, for a few seconds and gave him a shoulder shrug/"do you see the problem now" gesture.

This crap happens a lot around here. Rather than drive my blood pressure through the roof, I just drop back and let them run. Karma will catch them at some point and I do not need to be a part of it. It costs me nothing other than a possible delay of a second or 2 in getting to the next turn off, stop light, etc. And, I do not want to end up in the middle of a pile of wrecked cars because assholes refuse to follow the safe driving rules. As in how many car lengths should one allow between his car and the one ahead? I seem to recall a guideline from many years ago. 1 car length + an additional car length for each 10 MPH.

50 MPH equals 6 car lengths behind the car in front of you/me.

Remember, our "education" system no longer teaches stuff like how long it takes to stop a 3000 lb vehicle traveling at 60-70 MPH.

Not even considering that so damned many of those assholes have their faces planted in their damned smart phones while driving at 60+. Some of them at least 80MPH! weaving all over the road.

One of these days there will be a huge multi-car pile up and I do not want to be part of it! Therefore I drive defensively and if all else fails I get off that highway.

If nothing else this thread can be a reminder to all of not to engage or try to get back at someone who is already in road rage mindset. Best advice is to ignore and not make eye contact or otherwise provoke It takes a lot not to "get back at them" but it is the best and safest course of action. I always try to remember their behavior will catch up with them. Karma is king!


Story for emphasis:
A good friend of mine was on the interstate about 7 years ago and had a guy aggressively tailgating her in fairly heavy traffic at about 65 miles an hour. She further provoked him by giving him the finger. He changed lanes and went around a semi that was driving along side of her then sped up past the semi got back in her lane and slammed on the brakes. She had no time to react and ran right into him at high speed. It caused a serious accident and neck injury which resulted in cervical screws and cage to fix it. She lives with nerve pain and numbness to this day and is lucky it wasn't worse. Thankfully another motorist witnessed it all and he was charged and eventually gave her a settlement. The $$ was nothing compared to her physical disability now. Oh and the guy was a serious idiot. He was driving a bmw she was in a range rover. He is lucky to be alive!

Esdunbar I am just glad you are ok!

^^^^ great post P226RN. No winners in that game so don’t play.

Next time your childish games might just get you shot.

This thread reminds me of an incident from 2016, which had some interesting twists.

It happened on a 35 MPH road where many like to speed.
Side note, many have paid the price as the Police frequently hand out tickets on this stretch of road.

Here a driver was driving “slowly” at the speed limit, 35 MPH.
The driver behind him decided to tailgate.
The driver being tailgated allegedly decided to do a “brake check”.
His brakes worked and he was rear ended.

Passenger in car with front end damaged exited and approached the driver door of the lead car.
Driver of the lead car with rear end damage had opened his door an was preparing to exit.
Passenger from trailing car took a swing at driver from lead car.
Driver from lead car shot the passenger from trailing car.


Driver from trailing car was charged with careless and reckless driving and following too close.
The passenger from the trailing car who was shot was charged with assault.
Driver from lead car who fired his gun after being punched was not charged.

Road rage incident leaves 1 shot.

Man shot charged with assault in 'road rage' incident.

Stupid should hurt sometimes

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Stupid should hurt sometimes

Exactly. And the victim stance throughout the thread after asking for advice is telling.

When idiots collide......