I’ve driven an Ioniq5 recently… it was an absolute hoot. Frankly, I loved driving it. We could probably even use it as my primary car, provided I had a charger at home that could fill it up overnight. The low power charger the rental came with was useless. 3% over night.

But it wouldn’t work for my wife who makes regular multi-hour trips with the kiddos as well as longer road trips.

Maybe someday.

The batteries need to improve before this tech becomes mainstream.

Being able to drop your range by 50% plus depending on how heavy your foot is has to be considered a deal breaker in my eyes. The batteries need to make a big step forward before the future becomes electric.

Yeah, sure in other applications this tech makes a hell of a lot of sense but for cars the batteries have a big step forward needed before they are ready for the lime light.

They just aren't ready yet. The only reason they exist outside of niche market is because the government is stealing your money to rush a shit product to market. Buy one for fun if you have the money, otherwise wait 5-7 years more for the battery situation and standardization to work itself out.

Well, I would say not dead. More are sold every year, than the previous year. That trend has been increasing for the last decade. Guess only time will tell. You will also notice,if you want to research, that gas car sales have been going the other way since around 2017.

quote:

Originally posted by 1s1k:
and don’t have to worry about belts, hoses, oil, transmission, engine, brakes, etc. it will become an easy sale for the majority of people with charging capability at home.

Even with regenerative braking, brakes and tires both actually wear out much faster in EVs due to their increased weight — so much so that there are now significant environmental and health concerns regarding the increased amounts of 2.5 micron particulate matter in the air in several metropolitan areas that have been attributed to EV poliferation in those areas.

Also, people may not have to worry about hoses, belts, transmissions, and engines... but they DO have to worry about $15-25k batteries (and $6-12k battery charging components that aren't covered by the battery's 100k warranty)

The high end independent auto shop near me had to take Teslas off the list of vehicles they service. The owner (who is a fellow gear head) told me the weight causes repairs at an 80% higher rate than ICE powered vehicles, the supply chain sucks, and parts are very expensive compared to BMW, MB and Porsche. Customers who brought in the EVs were having fits over the resulting costs and repair times.

As for EVs being dead, probably not. Despite there not being enough generating capacity for these things, the high prices, lack of range, etc., the government and media have been pushing them and too many have been making money off them.

quote:

Originally posted by WingedMedic:

Even with regenerative braking, brakes and tires both actually wear out much faster in EVs due to their increased weight — so much so that there are now significant environmental and health concerns regarding the increased amounts of 2.5 micron particulate matter in the air in several metropolitan areas that have been attributed to EV poliferation in those areas.

My EV, that I have been daily driving for 10 years, weighs 3300 pounds. So no, the brakes and tires don’t wear out faster. In fact due to regenerative braking, I’m still on the original pads 10 years later. And I have them checked annually. Most gas vehicles weigh more than it. Not all EV’s are 7000 pounds or something ridiculous like that. And many trucks and SUV’s weigh similar weight so this argument is beyond silly.

quote:

Originally posted by WingedMedic:
Also, people may not have to worry about hoses, belts, transmissions, and engines... but they DO have to worry about $15-25k batteries (and $6-12k battery charging components that aren't covered by the battery's 100k warranty)

Where do you get this information? 10 years later I’m on the same battery pack. No warranty issues of any kind. If in some future year, in the anti-ev handbook you’re reading, well a replacement battery pack for it is 10k. And that would triple the range of when it was new. Considering I paid $19,700 all in from the first lease payment, to buying it and getting the title, that’s a deal. Many engines in gas vehicles would cost more to replace. Hell the gas engine in my performance car is 20k if I had to replace it.

The shit is deep in here.

Dead? No. Take longer to gain overall acceptance by the masses. Most likely.

However the return of $5/gal gasoline certainly won't hurt the EV cause.

Not dead but a, "Market Adjustment". They were pushed by incentives and now those incentives are starting to fade. Interest rates are rising so people are not going to want to spend the increased money required for an EV.

I live in Alaska and it makes no sense for me. I see quite a few around Anchorage and they make sense if they're strictly a commuting vehicle. But get outside of Anchorage and there is no charging infrastructure. If I needed to drive the ALCAN to the lower 48 for something, I'd be screwed and probably end up an ice cube on the side of the road.

If the greenie morons were smarter and more honest in their agenda, they would have concentrated on refining and improving hybrid vehicles first. I know people that claim to get/exceed 50mpg- motorcycle territory, which are obviously extremely efficient ICE vehicles in their own right. But no, we have to save the planet post haste! I know we have true believers here for EV’s, but even they have to admit that as a stand alone choice, they are an abject FAILURE at this moment as a replacement for ICE.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

The shit is deep in here.

Indeed.

We went all EV last year, the newest being a 2023 model and the oldest a 2019. We all share one home-based charger. Multiple regional road-trips and zero issues with charging access.

Most recent was a trip to Asheville NC last month. Normal drivetime no stops would have been about 6.5 hours. Total trip time was 8 hrs each way including charging stops, one of which was next to an Applebees so we stopped for lunch (which we would have done anyways) and the charge was done before we got our check. So, yeah..factor in maybe 10% more transit time.

I was spending $300/mo on gas for my 3x/week commute to work, gun runs around the state and normal use. I haven't spent that in total over 7 months in charging costs so easily $3500/yr savings.

That said, we're looking at a BEV pickup truck for long distance trips and when we need more room. The new RAM with V6 generator and 700mi range would fit the bill nicely for an extra vehicle that doesn't get driven often.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The technology is not yet mature. When the weight of these vehicles comes down; when the charging time from near zero to full charge is the same as filling up the tank of an internal combustion engine automobile (under five minutes); when EVs will run without recharging as long as an SUV will run on a 32 gallon tank of gasoline; when the cost of these vehicles come down; when the repair costs come out of the stratosphere; when the durability of EVs is that of IC autos, et cetera, et cetera, then the technology will be mature and EVs may be considered as a viable option to IC autos,

Until then, no and double no.

The real problem is that when we do reach the technology to make EVs attractive enough, the carbon footprint of EVs goes through the roof. A single Tesla supercharger can use more power than 2000 homes. We are at 1-2% adoption of EVs and California already asks users not to charge during peak usage times. What happens when the country is at 50% adoption. There simply isn't enough power in the grid, and the number of power plants necessary will never get built. Nuclear would help, but there doesn't seem to be any appetite for it among those who make the decisions. And what happens to the price of rare earth metals when the word needs to build 20 million EVs each year instead of a few hundred thousand.

BTW have you looked at the prices of used EVs? Not many cars are good investments, but EVs are particularly bad. Replacement battery costs need to come down significantly and/or the life cycle of a battery needs to be extended far beyond the current level to make the cars hold value better.

Without a lot of news reports from the major press around the world, Europe and Japan have had a conversion back to nuclear power and are trying to build them as fast as possible.
The bloom seems to be off the solar and wind rose as reality sets in.

Here's an example of an understated story.
https://apnews.com/article/eu-...3f0d1590dd2faf5e569a

Toyota's hybrid strategy is looking pretty smart. The new Camry is a hybrid with 50 mpg, and I think it will crush the competition.

Imaging this, you live in a part of the country that experiences hurricanes. You are told you need to evacuate. the only vehicle you own is an electric vehicle.

I have seen the miles long backups on the roadways. So many cars it takes hours to go a few miles. What happens when your EV runs out of power, you can't just stop at a gas station to fill up.

I think EVs are a nice novelty for people who can afford them as a second car, I know I sure can't, however in a time of crises can it be depended on to get you where you need to be.

I think Para said it best

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The technology is not yet mature. When the weight of these vehicles comes down; when the charging time from near zero to full charge is the same as filling up the tank of an internal combustion engine automobile (under five minutes); when EVs will run without recharging as long as an SUV will run on a 32 gallon tank of gasoline; when the cost of these vehicles come down; when the repair costs come out of the stratosphere; when the durability of EVs is that of IC autos, et cetera, et cetera, then the technology will be mature and EVs may be considered as a viable option to IC autos,

Until then, no and double no.

I love the lunacy that these threads bring out. Lol. Even the people who think EV is going to be HUGE still admit they will keep an ICE vehicle as well. You know, an EV for daily driving and a gas car for certain other stuff. I don’t care how much money you think you are saving by charging or even free if you have panels. Have you done the math? Of course not. Buying a SECOND car to save gas money is ludicrous. That math would never work.

Besides which put me in the camp of I don’t want extra cars sitting around at my house. 2 cars to fill the role that for 4 decades of driving I’ve always accomplished somehow with 1? Screw that. A second insurance payment, a second set of tires, a second cost of maintenance. Because yes even EV’s need tires, have maintenance issues and need to be insured.

I want one car. That’s it. That math makes sense.

I always chime in on these. I've been driving a Model 3 for 2.5 years. (Long range / Dual Motor)

I spend about $160- $180./ year on home charging. We use it for %99 of the driving that needs to be done. We both work from home. I've rotated the tires and put in washer fluid in 18K miles. Not a single issue so far.

When I first got it I was super skeptical if I'd take it on a road trip vs a ICE car. After owning if for a while I would no problem. I get around 300 miles off a charge @ %90. I've done a few 250 ish mile round trips in it. All that to say I'd have no problem taking it on a road trip. I freaking hate sitting to long in a car so the 10-15 minute charge break I'd need every 200- 300 miles I'd probably welcome.

BUT: there is so much hate for EVs out there. You can absolutely hate the political push for them and the legislature & politics. Don't hate a car just cause it's trendy to hate. Like a huge Monster Diesel wouldn't be practical for my uses. I don't hate one for what it is. (I'm not trying to save the world one EV at a time. I just enjoy not paying for gas & instant torque to drive.)

EVolution...

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

Where do you get this information? 10 years later I’m on the same battery pack. No warranty issues of any kind. If in some future year, in the anti-ev handbook you’re reading, well a replacement battery pack for it is 10k. And that would triple the range of when it was new. Considering I paid $19,700 all in from the first lease payment, to buying it and getting the title, that’s a deal. Many engines in gas vehicles would cost more to replace. Hell the gas engine in my performance car is 20k if I had to replace it.

The shit is deep in here.

The way the government screwed this whole thing up is by making mandates. I hate mandates as much as the next guy but there’s a certain part of the population that are the you can’t tell me what to do people so they dig there heals in and it doesn’t matter what the real facts of usage are. Everyone suddenly drives from California to New York for work everyday and believes every possible negative thing ever written about EV’s while ignoring any negatives of ICE vehicles.

Of course there are still going to be people that fit into certain categories that an EV won’t work for but for the vast majority of the population that has two cars an EV will easily handle anything they need. I for one will never give up my fun weekend V8 and I have never driven over 300miles in one sitting in my entire adult life. My vacations are too valuable to spend several days of it staring through a windshield. Pickup trucks will be available with V8’s for a long times because of the extreme use situation that most people never see.

Like I mentioned above if and most likely once there is a long battery warranty given by a manufacturer it will really accelerate the acceptance because that’s the main realistic thing holding most people back. Tesla and CATL are already working on a million mile battery so that issue will be a moot point eventually. I would concede tires are a reasonable complaint for a lot of them because of the weight of many of the EV’s are quite a bit heavier than a comparable ICE vehicle.

CATL’s million mile 15 year battery that has no degradation. Currently Tesla has 10-15% degradation after 200,000 miles. https://electrek.co/2024/04/03...illion-miles-15-yrs/

This is coming from a die hard ICE fan who drives a 500hp Challenger all the time.

My experience involves my brother. For what he and his wife use vehicles, EVs make sense. They live in the city and if one commutes, it’s 5 minutes from home. Groceries, activities, entertainment, local adventure all can be accomplished with their EVs. They do keep an ICE vehicle for long trips where anticipated routes are not serviced by EV infrastructure or charging times are impractical.

The trouble comes in their attitude that they are not affecting the environment. They only see the impact right in front of their eyes. No consideration of what happened before it arrived in the dealer nor what happens after the vehicle is gone. I’ve learned to ignore barbs toward ICE users and smug braggadocio about the advantages of their EVs.

EVs don’t make sense for my application. Parabellum described why. If that ever changes, sure, I’ll buy one. I doubt it will happen in the remainder of my lifetime though.