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Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by FP2000H:
Documents came out recently showing some very shady stuff.

NRA needs to clean house or it's done. It may be done already, but they did it to themselves. It will be interesting to watch this unfold.

Whether "they did it to themselves" or not, if the NRA falls our rights will suffer worse depredation by the GDCs.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. And while the NRA is certainly not perfect, they have been very good at their jobs.

And no I don't care how many interns Wayne is schtupping, or who pays their rent.

That battered spouse mentality is a huge part of the problem. It’s not unreasonable to demand accountability when it appears that membership donations have actually been going to support WLP’s personal lifestyle instead of advancing gun rights.

They’ve shown their true colors with regard to bumpstocks and red flag laws. I believe they will eventually support another ban on AR15 type rifles with “high capacity” magazines in exchange for all the FUDDs being able to keep their hunting rifles as if the 2A is about hunting.

I’m a Life member but I’ll never send them any more money - and there are many who share my sentiment - until this issue is resolved and WLP is out for starters.

Time to starve the beast.

And we don’t have gun rights because of the NRA. We have gun rights because of our willingness to shoot motherfuckers in the face who come and try to take them. That’s what the 2nd Amendment is about. You have to be willing to do that or the 2A is already dead.

Sad truth is maybe I’m not. Maybe a lot of us aren’t which is why we’ve been comfortable letting the NRA fight the battle for us and now look what we’ve gotten for it. Perhaps, we do deserve to lose our gun “rights.” If you support a grifter like WLP, and it’s certainly appearing that he is that, then you’ve placed your trust in the worst sort of individual.

This is a really bad look. I've been board counsel to tax advantaged organizations. If these guys don't clean up their house, they are fucked, and we are fucked right along with them.

It looks like LaPierre, and possibly others, are laundering money through Ackerman McQueen, rather than billing the NRA directly for expenses.

Those law firm billings need to be audited, too. I have worked in big law, and you can hide a lot in those bills.

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Originally posted by medic451:
Heres the link to the leaked docs. Wayne spending way to much money on suits in Beverly Hills, but the real juicy bit is the 9 pages regarding payments to Brewer.
ftp://67.190.79.35/sda1/nra2019documents1-clean

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Ge...rs-leaked/5-2219519/

Lots of legal service fees in those linked docs.

Wowsers. $19 million / 13 months.

Unfortunately, the NRA is not immune to management "sins". And all that outrageous spending, conduct was predictable, simply based on human conduct history.

I saw, and experienced, it first hand before I retired. I took early retirement because of all that shit, and got tired of being in the extreme minority of management that fought it.

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Originally posted by FP2000H:


They’ve shown their true colors with regard to bumpstocks and red flag laws. I believe they will eventually support another ban on AR15 type rifles with “high capacity” magazines in exchange for all the FUDDs being able to keep their hunting rifles as if the 2A is about hunting.

What in God's name are you going on about?

The NRA has never supported a ban on bumpstocks or shown any support for "red flag laws."

And if you believe the NRA would support or has shown any indication that they would ever support an "Assault weapons" ban, you haven't been paying attention.

Let's stop perpetuating fallacies put forth by anti gun groups who are trying to divide the gun community.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by FP2000H:


They’ve shown their true colors with regard to bumpstocks and red flag laws. I believe they will eventually support another ban on AR15 type rifles with “high capacity” magazines in exchange for all the FUDDs being able to keep their hunting rifles as if the 2A is about hunting.

What in God's name are you going on about?

The NRA has never supported a ban on bumpstocks or shown any support for "red flag laws."

And if you believe the NRA would support or has shown any indication that they would ever support an "Assault weapons" ban, you haven't been paying attention.

Let's stop perpetuating fallacies put forth by anti gun groups who are trying to divide the gun community.

What exactly have they done to fight the bump stock ban? Also when is the fight for 922(o) coming? They promised that they would fight 922(o) in 1986 after the ridiculously titled Firearm Owners Protection Act was passed with NRA support. I have little faith that the NRA wouldn’t give in to some sort of ban in order to protect the Fudds and their hunting guns. I’m at the point where I refuse to support one more inch and believe that it’s time to start fighting to get our machine guns back and for removal of silencers, SBRs and SBSs from the NFA. If there is to be anymore bans I want them to be complete bans of all firearms so that people say no and we start to really fight for our gun rights as a whole instead of death by a thousand cuts. I refuse to support an organization that would give one more inch, and I’m sorry to say but that’s where the NRA is right now - too willing to sell us out time and again. I’d rather support organizations that will fight things in court, especially now while it is in our favor, instead of the relentless bullshit compromising that the NRA has been doing for the last 30+ years.

Exactly my Patron membership is my last dollars to them, not one more penny to them going to support GOA.

It sounds like Col. North saw the issue(s) that needed to be addressed and attempted to do so, but got shut down by the board. Is my interpretation of what's going on correct?

^^^ That's how I see it too.

It looks to me like the whole top end of NRA is corrupt, so change, reform, is not going to happen from within the organization. The new president immediately announced that lifestyles of the rich and famous Wayne had the solid support of the entire board.

A thread on other Second Amendment groups might be helpful, kind of like what happened on this board when the corruption at Wounded Warriors was exposed. I learned here about a number of good organizations, all small scale but effective, and my son and I donated to a few of them.

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Originally posted by marksman41:
It sounds like Col. North saw the issue(s) that needed to be addressed and attempted to do so, but got shut down by the board. Is my interpretation of what's going on correct?

I've not followed it a bit. But that is what I get from 20,000'.

I ll continue to support the NRA. I’m not going to assist the left in tearing it down.

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Originally posted by Lt CHEG:

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by FP2000H:


They’ve shown their true colors with regard to bumpstocks and red flag laws. I believe they will eventually support another ban on AR15 type rifles with “high capacity” magazines in exchange for all the FUDDs being able to keep their hunting rifles as if the 2A is about hunting.

What in God's name are you going on about?

The NRA has never supported a ban on bumpstocks or shown any support for "red flag laws."

And if you believe the NRA would support or has shown any indication that they would ever support an "Assault weapons" ban, you haven't been paying attention.

Let's stop perpetuating fallacies put forth by anti gun groups who are trying to divide the gun community.

What exactly have they done to fight the bump stock ban? .

Fight what? Surely you are aware that no law was passed banning the bump-stock. It was effectively done unilaterally by one person, President Trump.

As for the rest, you act as if the NRA is some sort of superhero or something. But go ahead, let's all turn our backs on the NRA, see where that gets us.

I'll continue to support the NRA as well.

ETA: Having said what I said, a change in leadership would not be unwelcome.

I support them but they need a complete change of leadership. No more $ from me until they do.

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Originally posted by marksman41:
It sounds like Col. North saw the issue(s) that needed to be addressed and attempted to do so, but got shut down by the board. Is my interpretation of what's going on correct?

My understanding was that Col. North was feeding at the same trough.

The ad agency was paid to produce 12 NRA TV shows featuring Col. North and they only produced 3. Col. North was paid over a million for these shows.

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Originally posted by jljones:
I ll continue to support the NRA. I’m not going to assist the left in tearing it down.

I’m with Jones on this.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

Fight what? Surely you are aware that no law was passed banning the bump-stock. It was effectively done unilaterally by one person, President Trump.

As for the rest, you act as if the NRA is some sort of superhero or something. But go ahead, let's all turn our backs on the NRA, see where that gets us.

I'll continue to support the NRA as well.

ETA: Having said what I said, a change in leadership would not be unwelcome.

I’m well aware of how things took place, and it’s about the only thing President Trump has done that I am diametrically opposed to. My point is that lawsuits should have been filed immediately seeking an injunction to prevent the rule change from taking place. The NRA has a history of being very weak in opposing legislation that restricts military style features on firearms. At the same time the NRA’s leadership is very badly mismanaging their funds and in need of a fresh slate. So I prefer to support an organization such as GOA which is actively bringing cases to court and trying to use the judicial process to correct the wrongs from legislative and executive actions, which the NRA is not doing nearly enough of in my opinion. So I maintain membership in the NRA to help demonstrate that there are a large number of gun supporters, but I will not give any additional funds to the NRA as I believe that they will not spend that money wisely.

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It looks like LaPierre, and possibly others, are laundering money through Ackerman McQueen, rather than billing the NRA directly for expenses.

Those law firm billings need to be audited, too. I have worked in big law, and you can hide a lot in those bills.

North and Childress are right about that. The Brewer invoices are highly suspect.

I work too hard for my $ to give it to the NRA so that WLP can stay at the 4Seasons.

If they aint spending $ on fighting gun laws, that ain’t no good to me. All the fancy suites & hotels & European trips ain’t helping American gun owners.

After a time, every one of these advocacy organizations becomes a monster that exists only to perpetuate itself. The fact that we happen to agree with their mission doesn't change that. NRA, AARP, NAACP, AMA, doesn't matter. They need the issue, not the solution, to keep money flowing.