quote:

Originally posted by dave7378]
Holy shit, did I miss something. Tanksoldier, where have you been? Great to see your posts again!

It’s Easter, a traditional time to return from the dead.

Buying something you don't need while shelves are full and there's no emergency? Normal.
Buying something you don't need while shelves are nearly empty and people are panicking? Hoarding.
Buying something you need while shelves are nearly empty and people are panicking? Normal.
Buying something you need but way more of it than you need while shelves are nearly empty and people are panicking? Hoarding.

Don't wait until shelves are nearly empty and people are panicking to get what you need.

Don't go overboard buying things you don't need.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Hoarding or not, I think it's okay.

Do whatever the fuck you want with your time and money. Everyone had their opportunity.

I'm with you.

And I have 4 freezers. And two generators. Bought them years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by reflex/deflex 64:
I am predicting fully half of those freezers will not be opened again after this pandemic. The food inside will be freezer burned and useless 5 years from now when it’s decided to “just sell that damn thing”.

And if … so what?
I have thrown away fire extinguishers that I never used, pills that I never took, and food I never ate. I have sold or given away guns that I fired only a few times, or not at all. I paid for comprehensive insurance on my car for years, and have never filed a claim on it or on my household insurance. How many of us have bought guns with the intention of using them for self-defense that were never used, and never will be used for that purpose? Preparing for the unexpected to give me peace of mind or for other reasons and plans, even if they don’t come to fruition, is my concern and mine alone.

In fact, being fully prepared for massive shortages will inevitably result in wastage in the end, if for no other reason that it will still be there when we die or can’t use it for some other reason. Most of us don’t have crystal balls to tell us when we should start using up our stockpiles and not replenishing them. I am slowly drawing down my ammunition stores because of my age and health, but I will always maintain a level for the unexpected, and which there’s a 99% likelihood that my heirs will be cursing me for as they have to dispose of it (I hope, anyway).

And then there’s the question of what constitutes “don’t need.” I have a supply of nitrile gloves that I’ve had for years and use for occasional, but important purposes. Now I’m using them much more frequently because not everyone who goes to the grocery store takes measures to avoid infecting other shoppers. Is it possible that supplies will return to normal before I’ve gone through what I have? Yes. Is it possible that they won’t. Also yes. I hope that the extra box I found a couple of weeks ago plus what I already had on hand will be sufficient to last until things return to normal, but as my emergency manager/retired infantry lieutenant colonel friend keeps reminding us, “Hope is not a method.”

If this disaster were the result of a hurricane that hit a small area, we could be confident in how many things would play out. If I had to, I could spend a day driving to and from where I could get the supplies I needed. Anyone who is confidently predicting how society will have to continue to respond to this pandemic over the next months, though, is stunningly ignorant. A century ago the “Spanish” flu swept the world in three—count ’em, three—waves, the second of which was the most deadly. Ebola that the wags here find so amusing because it’s not they or their loved ones who are dying keeps coming back despite much more drastic efforts to control it than we’re experiencing with COVID-19.

So, yeah, I’m going to buy what I think I might need when I find it. If a neighbor (none of whom have ever introduced themselves in 25 years) comes asking if I have any spare toilet paper, I’ll help him out as best I can based on my own needs. I’m not, however, going to feel bad if he has to spend his laid-off time trying to find it in the stores.

There is a fine or blurry line between planning ahead and hoarding, and nobody knows quite where it is. But grabbing up armloads or cartloads of, for example, toilet paper in a time of trouble when others also need it, and at the expense of more vital needs like food and water, definitely crosses it.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:

quote:

Originally posted by dave7378]
Holy shit, did I miss something. Tanksoldier, where have you been? Great to see your posts again!

It’s Easter, a traditional time to return from the dead.

Whee!!!

Welcome back

I admit, this whole freezer thing caught me off guard. I'm so busy between my day job and trying to build up the farm that I don't hand time to think about runs on things.

One of my friends finally decided to stock up and buy a whole animal from me. I told him to pick up a freezer and I would get one processed and to him.

He said where. I listed off all of the usual suspects and he told me no one had one. He had to spend big bucks for 1.

I have (8) 28 cubic ft chest freezers and 3 other smaller versions. But, I sell chicken pork, and turkeys so...

We live in norther Minnesota. The winters can be long and have an occasional power outage. We are set for a couple of months regarding food. Have several propane tanks(20-100 lb)always kept full.

Have a backup heater along with a wood burning stove in the basement. I have approx. three winters worth of wood in various drying stages. plus, live on acreage with tons of firewood.

Guns and ammo, not even going there, lol! I will say though, the TP thing got me thinking a little more, not to hoard pallets or cases, just a few extra packages, plus paper plates. And yes, I do have a generator, and rotate 15 gallons of gas throughout the year.

I find it humorous that people on this forum whose unofficial motto is " buy it cheap and stack it deep" are debating hoarding

Many here (including myself) would be considered hoarders and have what is considered "arsenals" by the normals.

Hell my friends joke about it....one posted when we got back into CONUS last month..."everything will be fine dewhorse is back"

Why do we keep using the word hoarder? It's not the right word. Prepper would be the correct word but that has a negative tinfoil hat kind of connotation to it. If you have a pantry full of food, you're stocked deep, you have a generator, you have a first aid kit, you have a fire extinguisher, you have spare paper products, you have a SD gun, you're simply prepared. Even if you have five each of the above, you are simply prepared.

If you have 15 years worth of newspapers, 29 year old soy sauce packets from Chinese places that fill an entire drawer, or you have trails through your house where you can navigate rooms but not actually even access all the stuff you've accumulated, then you are a hoarder. If you've been in a hoarders house you know the second you walk in their house, 99% of the time they know they have a problem, you can tell because they apologize the second you walk in.

Hoarders accumulate mostly useless stuff, having a pantry/freezer(s) with rotated out stock organized in a system, that is not anything like hoarder-like behavior.

The terms were are dealing with are either Panic buyer or Prepper.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skins2881,

quote:

Why do we keep using the word hoarder? It's not the right word. Prepper would be the correct word

...but the person buying 10 cases of chicken noodle soup now isn’t a prepper. The prepper bought his stuff years or months ago, they prepared in advance.

The person buying now is an unprepared panicker.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:

...but the person buying 10 cases of chicken noodle soup now isn’t a prepper. The prepper bought his stuff years or months ago, they prepared in advance.

The person buying now is an unprepared panicker.

That was my point.

I have a slightly different perspective than most.

My parents had me late in life, my Dad was born in 1912 and my Mother in 1916. I was born in the late 1950's.

Both were old enough to remember the aftermath of WW1.

Both went through the Great Depression as young adults.

Both went through WW2 with the rationing and shortages of just about everything and all that went along with that time.

We always had a big garden. Dad had a good job and also had a small farm and raised chickens, pigs, a cow or 2, so we always had food.

They canned Mason jar style everything they reasonably could, we also had a freezer.

Our basement was well stocked. I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, we were hanging extra blanks over all the window curtains and hauling extra water down into the basement. At the time I didn't really realize what was going on but I do remember very well what we did. We lived about 30 miles from an Air Force Base and believed it may be hit in a war.

From watching and learning from my parents actions and from listening to their stories of the Great Depression, WW2, etc, and the shortages of items, the struggles of just feeding a family, etc, well this made a huge impression on me.

I detest the word "Prepper". Ugh!

I have lived my entire life with the thought that I have to keep extra money saved up, to keep some extra food set aside, along with needed meds, etc etc etc. It just makes perfect sense to me and I just can't understand why people have 2 days of groceries at home, 2 rolls of toilet paper, the car gas tank is usually about empty..... well you get the idea.

I keep enough food and supplies on hand and I keep some extra that I can give to others who are out and needing a little help. I'm pleased to do so and that it's my duty.

However, to those who don't keep a stock up, who have been warned, talked to, advised, and have laughed and refused to prepare for their family, well then I seem to have a tough time having pity on you.

Very well said Gene!

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by F12517:
Substitute guns for the freezers and I'd love to know what here response would be at that point.

You're unprepared / not planning ahead? Ain't my problem.

Yep!

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:

quote:

Why do we keep using the word hoarder? It's not the right word. Prepper would be the correct word

...but the person buying 10 cases of chicken noodle soup now isn’t a prepper. The prepper bought his stuff years or months ago, they prepared in advance.

The person buying now is an unprepared panicker.

This, I don't think ANYONE on this forum is upset about or talking about a Prepper. Most of us on Sigforum are preppers to some degree or another. A prepper buys their stuff in advance of any news of anything going on, when things are on sale, or normally stocked, NOT during news of a pandemic, they are already prepared for it.

A hoarder is something entirely different, a person who collects/buys so much stuff (during normal times), but more than they could ever possibly use in their entire lifetime, so much they're tripping over it. A prepper rotates through their stuff so it doesn't go bad generally......a hoarder just keeps hoarding and hoarding.

Most people are pissed at the Panic buyer or opportunist buyer (who is buying it and selling it at a much higher rate), who all of a sudden after news of a pandemic, decides they need to buy 300 rolls of toilet paper or the entire shelf of it so to speak, so none is on the shelves for normal people to buy, or feels they need to go out and buy 7 chest freezers (not 1) all of a sudden with news from this.

Quite honestly, I am prepared, I live in the hurricane belt, but I NEVER IMAGINED toilet paper would be out of stock for 1-2 months at every grocery store. And, I cannot imagine why someone would think they need to run out and buy a 5 year supply of it. A friend of mine sent me a video from a local Walmart where 2 women over 50 years old were fighting over toilet paper, actual pushing and punching each other, to the point the manager and a store employee got involved, the one lady has a cart overflowing with packages of toilet paper, and they had to call the police.

Hoarding happens when a shopper snaps up supply more than normal during the emergency. Planning ahead is when a shopper buys more than needed before an emergency is even on the radar.

Mrs DF and I have been planning ahead since our first year of marriage. Three years ago we bought a freeze dryer. It has been running almost continually since. We have multiple spaces and an entire room in the house packed with freeze dried meals good for 30 years.

We are not hoarders. I have not bought one roll of TP in over a month. Didn't need to. We have a 6 month (or more) supply at home. I let others buy what they needed during the crisis.

Walking through the store during the early panic holding my six pack of Dr. Pepper and watching the chaotic shelf emptying was surreal. There was nothing we needed so I felt like a spectator from another dimension. Just me and my little six pack standing in a serpentine line boxed in by carts over flowing with supplies while 'runners' were out getting more and bringing back. It was creepy. Imagine what will be when we find ourselves in an indefinite supply interruption.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x: Quite honestly, I am prepared, I live in the hurricane belt, but I NEVER IMAGINED toilet paper would be out of stock for 1-2 months at every grocery store. And, I cannot imagine why someone would think they need to run out and buy a 5 year supply of it.

So what do you intend to do differently now that you can imagine toilet paper and other items being out of stock for 1-2 months? Do you have a new definition of "prepared" that is something between 2 months and 5 years on certain items?

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x: Quite honestly, I am prepared, I live in the hurricane belt, but I NEVER IMAGINED toilet paper would be out of stock for 1-2 months at every grocery store. And, I cannot imagine why someone would think they need to run out and buy a 5 year supply of it.

So what do you intend to do differently now that you can imagine toilet paper and other items being out of stock for 1-2 months? Do you have a new definition of "prepared" that is something between 2 months and 5 years on certain items?

I got lucky by chance. I hate going to Costco so I try to only go every 6-8 weeks. I went the end of FEB before any news of this was around and Charmin and Bounty were $4-5 off a pack. I never get down that far before I stock up......maybe 12 rolls TP and 6 rolls of Paper towels....I had more of both when I bought. Probably 50 rolls of TP and 15 rolls of paper towels on St. Patricks day...….I'm still good on both, maybe 24 rolls TP and 12 rolls of paper towels. I may stock more, but am fortunate that I manage/maintain yachts and one of them is 1/2 a mile from my house and they always have plenty of paper goods on board that I could borrow. That being said and I live in South Florida (with hurricanes) and am busy getting yachts ready for a storm that I can't shop, I keep well well stocked during hurricane season and elsewhere. My freezer is always generally full and I had 12 lbs of Filet mignon and 13 lbs of boneless/skinless chicken breasts in the freezer and a good amount of water...…. I lost 80% of my business right off the bat, by March 15th I lost 80% of my work through the end of June (yacht trips all cancelled or delayed).

Knowing I wasn't doing any traveling I ordered Hello Fresh meal kits, first 3 nights a week and upped it to 5-6 nights a week on most weeks. I'm really happy I did, I got $30 off week 1+2, $10 off Weeks 3+4, right before they took away the promotions. AND, the meal kits come with the fresh veggies, meats, spices, everything, so it's saved me from having to go grocery shopping AND it's like going to a restaurant.

I probably will stock a bit more toilet paper and paper towels just because...….frozen veggies are one thing I need to keep more of. Generally I just eat fresh vegetables. But only have a normal refrigerator/freezer, no additional freezers but it's enough if you don't have meats with bones in them.

quote:

Originally posted by tanksoldier:
Hoarding is the unprepared trying to become prepared too late. It’s also misused to describe those eho have thought ahead, and prepared over time, vs those who run out snd try to buy all at once what they should have been setting by for years.

If you have to buy much more than normal incidentals at the start of any crisis, you’ve failed to prepare properly for that crisis. We were actually almost out of TP when the crazy hit, just that place in the cycle of our monthly Costco runs. We bought that and some extra canned goods and cold medicine, and have been pretty much set since.

Hoarding is a psychological response to loss of control. I can’t control anything important in my life, but I’ll for darn sure control having enough TP (or whatever). If you’re prepared and have thought ahead you don’t experience the same loss of control and the consequent reaction of needing to control something.

Like the Mormons mentioned above, having six months to a year of food on hand helps mitigate personal disasters as much as global or regional crisis. If you’re living paycheck to paycheck, losing your job is a disaster. If you have six months of food in storage and a years salary in the bank, not so much.

Good post, and welcome back Tank.

The line between being prepared and hoarding kind of like porn - can be difficult to define but you know it when you see it. Context has a lot to do with it as well as the impact towards others - buying in excess during normal circumstances with an eye towards disaster which have not yet come to pass while there's plenty on the shelf? Not hoarding, though possibly weird depending on item/quantity. If you've always had 5 freezers full of meat or kept six months of TP in the basement you're not a hoarder IMHO.

Buying in excess in the midst of a crisis with the knowledge that doing so will likely prevent others from being able to buy the bare minimum? If you bought 5 freezers and filled them two weeks ago while happily giving the finger to the people entering Costco while you're on the way to your car then you're probably hoarding.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: asonie,