Game theory says the best outcome for myself is to snatch up everything I might possibly want, especially if the shelves are empty or getting empty. There is no advantage to leaving anything behind, unless EVERYONE else agrees to do the same. So long as there is one person out there who is willing to buy more than "an acceptable limit", your best outcome is to buy everything you could possibly want. The alternative is staring at bare shelves when you actually need something.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Game theory says the best outcome for myself is to snatch up everything I might possibly want, especially if the shelves are empty or getting empty. There is no advantage to leaving anything behind, unless EVERYONE else agrees to do the same. So long as there is one person out there who is willing to buy more than "an acceptable limit", your best outcome is to buy everything you could possibly want. The alternative is staring at bare shelves when you actually need something.

This would imply that you weren't prepared, in advance. This would be in the panic buying stage, neither hoarding or prepping.

I had the extra freezer almost busting at the seams before this started. I had to empty it and reorganize it to fit the last few steaks in.
If it's on sale, I buy it and stash it for later. My wife always thought it was a little weird but she never argued. Now, she sees the sense and we will be keeping a pantry well stocked, permanently.

I prep for unforeseen circumstances, not TEOTWAWAKI.

Bruce

This and other threads have helped me realize that I’m an asshole for looking after my own (and my family’s) interests when I can and will continue to do so in the future when it comes to such vital supplies as toilet paper. We must not forget, however, that like many activities in life there are at least two levels of assholery in this present crisis. One level is that: making it difficult for other people who couldn’t—or wouldn’t—prepare when they had the chance to find nonessentials such as the most comfy way to wipe their butts.

The other level of assholery, though, is a large step up: the unwillingness to suffer the slightest inconvenience to help limit the spread of a disease that has the potential of causing some people serious health problems, up to and including death. I suspect that many here just bleep over the posts from people like me about us and our family members who could be affected in the gravest ways if we become infected. People do that when it’s an issue they assume won’t affect themselves or they simply don’t care very much about other people. But recognized or not, that possibility is very real, and the threat is enhanced when someone who is infected without having any symptoms of the disease refuses to wear a mask or, even more bizarrely, won’t so much as follow the signs in a store that are intended to allow people to remain separated from each other.

As demonstrated by what has happened in the countries where such measures were instituted early and effectively, the rates of infection and death are lowered as a result.

And therefore I propose we establish two labels of assholery for this pandemic: First and Second Class. I’ll accept the label as “Asshole, Second Class,” if the others don’t mind the tag of “Asshole, First Class” and are willing to acknowledge it as I am mine.

I cant get mad at "hoarders". I simply cant.

Some animals are more equal than other animals.

In times of crisis, the people with the food, are better off then the people without the food.

If I spend $600 per month on food times 12 months, thats $7200. Whats the difference, to me, if I spend that $7200 in the first 3 months of 2020, rather than spread it out over 12 months?

More people absolutely should have a prepper mindset. If it takes a global pandemic and empty store shelves for them to see the writing on the wall, then so be it. Perhaps we will have a generation of forward thinkers now.

The meat packing plants are closing and there is a coming shortage of meat products. Meat was already short, and for the next months it will be even worse. Wouldn't the guy with the large freezer that has a lot of meat stored be better off in this case? I think so.

I think its ridiculous to be mad at others for shortages. You had MONTHS to prepare for this. This was news in January. Anyone with a brain KNEW this was going to be a big deal in January. Anyone with a brain bought extra toilet paper and food back in January...

I havent seen a single roll of toilet paper for sale at the stores here in about 6 weeks. This will probably be a protracted toilet paper shortage. If you only kept 2 weeks worth of toilet paper, you are now up shits creek. Literally.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
This thread has helped me realize that I’m an asshole for looking after my own (and my family’s) interests when I can and will continue to do so in the future when it comes to such vital supplies as toilet paper.

This times 1000. Literally could give two shits about Sally down the street and her minions. She dont have toilet paper or meat? I dont give a shit. My house is well stocked. Sally had access to the same news I did. Sally failed to prepare. She should be mad at herself. Not the guy with a brain, that saw the writing on the wall, and bought extra.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
Game theory says the best outcome for myself is to snatch up everything I might possibly want, especially if the shelves are empty or getting empty. There is no advantage to leaving anything behind, unless EVERYONE else agrees to do the same. So long as there is one person out there who is willing to buy more than "an acceptable limit", your best outcome is to buy everything you could possibly want. The alternative is staring at bare shelves when you actually need something.

This would imply that you weren't prepared, in advance. This would be in the panic buying stage, neither hoarding or prepping.

Even if you had 12 months worth of toilet paper, if presented with an opportunity to buy more (at any time, even during the panic), the optimal outcome is to go ahead and buy more if you believe it would be beneficial to you to have more. There is no advantage* to depleting your own supply, while allowing others the strategic benefit of replacing theirs.

*Hedging against price fluctuations is more complex, but assuming for this panic that the gov't is prohibiting price gouging and there is no black market.

When I go shopping my main priority isn't making sure Karen down the road gets everything she wants and no, I'm not thinking of the poor poor children or old folks either. Not that I don't care about others but they need to do for themselves and I'll do more mine.
I don't know where we got this mindset that we are supposed to be responsible for other's lack of planning. Guess some folks are more keen on socialism than they lead on here.

Well said sigfreund!!

What I don’t understand is why are the grocery stores still full of people even in “off” hours?

I could see the first couple of weeks when people realize that they have been caught out but I would have thought that “first wave” of people would have processed through and things would have returned to a somewhat more “normal” phase.

Where I live is a mostly retired area with not a lot of kids, although there are some. So why are people filling the Kroger parking lot on a Monday at 8 AM? Fortunately, we decided to shop for a couple of weeks worth and haven’t needed to go there but I drive by it almost every day...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: smlsig,

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
What an don’t understand is why are the grocery stores still full of people even in “off” hours?

I think it's people who can't stand to stay at home but with the 'decrees', you can no longer spend hours at the coffee shop or bookstore or gym. So they go to the grocery and buy some stuff, because it's an essential / allowed activity.

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
I had the extra freezer almost busting at the seams before this started. I had to empty it and reorganize it to fit the last few steaks in.
If it's on sale, I buy it and stash it for later. My wife always thought it was a little weird but she never argued. Now, she sees the sense and we will be keeping a pantry well stocked, permanently.

I prep for unforeseen circumstances, not TEOTWAWAKI.

Bruce

Same here, I have two deer freezers, and as the meat gets used up and there is some space my wife would fill them up with frozen pizzas and that type of crap..... as of this past Deer Season that stopped.

My son and I harvested 2 nice does this season and my buddy did a beautiful job of butchering them and we vacuum sealed the meat.

I cleaned out all the garbage fast food in those freezers, and then I bought a vacuum sealer myself. She would shop sales on chicken and beef and we filled them with pre-portioned "meal sized" packages that she kept inventory on a spreadsheet. It was working out great when she wanted to defrost something she would buy fresh replacements and she has a system of marking the packages for dates.

Also, she would buy extra canned items that we liked and we have about 5-6 months of meals (including rice and pasta in those meals).

She was completely against me "prepping" or installing a transfer switchbox for the generator before Hurricane Sandy hit us and there was no power for 2 weeks. But thank God I did and we cruised thru Sandy, and also supported neighbors with meals and showers.

So to all the people out there that call me a Prepper or a Horder- screw you. I planned to support my family and spent the time and effort to prepare, screw you that you have the balls to "blame me" that you don't have any TP.

Oh, by the way, these are the same folks who have repeatedly called me looking to buy a gun since the Gun Stores are closed and out of stock, and the laws make them wait so long. Entitled assholes.

Seems like everyone is just going to think that whatever they did was the correct action to take.
Like George Carlin's theory on other drivers: anyone driving slower than you is an asshole and anyone driving faster is a maniac.
Everyone just wants to believe they are the smartest in the room and they had some foresight that nobody else does.

I just think people should go to the store and buy whatever they feel they need to buy that day and anyone who has an opinion on that should move to Russia already.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
What an don’t understand is why are the grocery stores still full of people even in “off” hours?

I think it's people who can't stand to stay at home but with the 'decrees', you can no longer spend hours at the coffee shop or bookstore or gym. So they go to the grocery and buy some stuff, because it's an essential / allowed activity.

Which is exactly why I am avoiding the grocery store like a plague. I feel it's one of the most highly contagious places to go. Everyone handling everything from into the truck, out of the truck, onto the shelves, customers also picking things up and looking at them and putting them back. Customers coughing and sneezing on stuff...…..cashiers handling it, baggers handling it...… Grocery stores, then convenient stores, then the gas pump handles, hospitals would be the key area's to catch it, aside from interacting with a friend,relative, etc. that has it.

Staying home as much as possible is boring, but the wise move. Focus on the as much as possible.

I voted normal behavior. People who complain about hoarding are normally,(a generalization with a bunch of anecdotal evidence), the ones who call preppers hoarders.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

Snip


Even if you had 12 months worth of toilet paper, if presented with an opportunity to buy more (at any time, even during the panic), the optimal outcome is to go ahead and buy more if you believe it would be beneficial to you to have more. There is no advantage* to depleting your own supply, while allowing others the strategic benefit of replacing theirs.

*Hedging against price fluctuations is more complex, but assuming for this panic that the gov't is prohibiting price gouging and there is no black market.

I'd argue if you have a year supply of the good butt paper, it'd be time for looking for other holes in your preparations to shore up. Maybe buy a second freezer and more meat.

Personally, I just buy what I've used to replace it as I use it. I got some Red Charmin the other day, didn't need it yet, but I've been using my stock, so I replenished it since I can't buy my normal '12 = 70 billion rolls' bulk packs now. Went to Costco bought some of their frozen premade 1/3 Angus Chuck burgers, still have half a package, but a few meat plants have closed and it's easy to cook, so a great protein source to have on hand. If there was no meat left for some strange reason or burger goes to $8 a pound, I can make spaghetti or or tacos from the burgers by simply cooking them and chopping it up half way through the process.

I buy what I want with no regard to other people, I could give two shits about them, but I will spend my resources where it makes sense to me. The thirteenth month of TP is not high on my list, but the third month of meat is.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
What I don’t understand is why are the grocery stores still full of people even in “off” hours?

I think you're underestimating the impact of folks eating at home almost exclusively. Many don't do that regularly, many even do that a tiny minority of the time in normal conditions.

That, coupled with this newly-self-feeding group not being well organized and able to plan and shop for 2-3 weeks of meals at once has them all in the store more, and more often. IMHO.

Georgeair hit the nail on the head, most people have no idea how to feed themselves. Besides that even if you know to, how many takeout out lunches aren't being eaten now that no one is working.

The shift from the commercial good chain to the individual is screwing up all the logistics of a well oiled machine. Farmers are dumping milk and plowing vegetables into the ground because their supply chain is screwed.

The restaurant/commercial distribution can't just be changed overnight to supply grocery stores. Who's buying 10 lb blocks of cheese or butter? Who wants a milk crate full of pints of milk? It's the same thing with the TP, you can buy commercial TP all day long, it's not easy for the factories to retool for home use. Think of all the work shit's that aren't happening as I type this. Think about all the empty hotel rooms, stadiums, conference halls, cruise ships, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
What I don’t understand is why are the grocery stores still full of people even in “off” hours?

I can think of several reasons.
Many people who are otherwise home bound can go whenever they want, rather than when they would otherwise be working, transporting kids to/from school or other activities, going out to restaurants, etc. They may feel that the crowds will be less first thing in the morning.
Some people like fresh foods like fruits, vegetables, baked goods, and even meats that they can’t store in cans or the freezer. That means they must go to the stores regularly and frequently.
Some stores stock the shelves overnight, and the selection of what’s available is better early in the morning.
Some stores have “vulnerable people” (geezer) hours in the morning, and the first time my local store started that the place was packed from 7 to 9 AM.

I haven't read the whole thread, apologies if I repeat a known issue. But I was gonna try to bake a little bread. Have you tried to find yeast- just the small packets of Fleishmann's? Apparently it's the next toilet paper.

quote:

Originally posted by MRBTX:
I haven't read the whole thread, apologies if I repeat a known issue. But I was gonna try to bake a little bread. Have you tried to find yeast- just the small packets of Fleishmann's? Apparently it's the next toilet paper.

It's hard as hell to find. The best way for things like that is ask the store manager when they get their trucks in and come in mid morning that day (or next if they get nighttime deliveries). I know all the people at my local grocer and they tell me when to come to get certain items.