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Member behavior and the administering of SIGforum Login/Join 
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMike:
Anyone who complains about how this forum is run has never moderated an Internet forum. Plain as that.

Yup.

quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMike:
(I have, and probably never will again, I lack the requisite patience of Job.)

I would, but I'd certainly never volunteer for the job. It isn't nearly as much "fun" as people who've never moderated think it is.

Last moderation position I held I resigned because one of my co-moderators insisted his new squeeze, who had absolutely zero qualifications for the job, would make a great moderator. A couple of his buddies on the moderation team backed him. In reality it was nothing more than another in a series of political gambits from the same characters. I'd had enough.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26027 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
W07VH5
Picture of mark123
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TMats:
quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMike:
Anyone who complains about how this forum is run has never moderated an Internet forum. Plain as that. (I have, and probably never will again, I lack the requisite patience of Job.)

I have too, and had to walk away. It was the political forum within a larger firearms forum. The herding cats comparison seems appropriate.

Thanks, para
Same here. I've both owned and moderated forums in the past. If anyone asked me to do that again, I'd impolitely decline with a string of words that Tourette's Guy would be ashamed to hear.

Once every other year or so, I make a post that's not let through due to a trigger word but I have no idea which word or phrase caused the issue. I'm thinking certain ex-member names can't be used because the last time it happened to me it was in a thread about remembering those that no longer visit. Perhaps one of those I mentioned left on not so good terms and I just didn't know about it. Sometimes I'd like to know a list of things I shouldn't talk about beyond the obvious.
 
Posts: 45674 | Location: Pennsyltucky | Registered: December 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
always with a hat or sunscreen
Picture of bald1
posted Hide Post
Zero complaints here. Been made to feel welcome from the onset by admin, moderators, and members alike. Can't get any better than that. Big Grin

And as for moderating, I've done stints over the years ranging from a Sysop of a PCUG BBS to one of the initial moderators for bladeforum's opening days back in the very late '90s. It is indeed work and invariably underappreciated. Smile



Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club!
USN (RET), COTEP #192
 
Posts: 16608 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: June 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Ripley
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Woodman:
There are a couple of people on this forum whom I'd like to (fill in the blank)...


Oh yeah. Wink But mostly dealing with the problems on my own is its own education. That said, there is one member who remains blocked for me. I don't remember why but he'll show up here and there and I'm reminded why.




Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.
 
Posts: 8656 | Location: Flown-over country | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of cjevans
posted Hide Post
This is the best run forum on the internet.

Most members here, have common goals and long term views. Shared and discussed.

The island of reality for news, gossip, views, opinions, and good ole advice.

Say what you mean and own it.

Thanks to Para, the mods, members, and all who take the time to write. And sometimes delete.

Your opinions are noted and oft stolen and repeated to the delight of others.

--chris



We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~ Benjamin Franklin.

"If anyone in this country doesn't minimise their tax, they want their head read, because as a government, you are not spending it that well, that we should be donating extra...:
Kerry Packer

SIGForum: the island of reality in an ocean of diarrhoea.
 
Posts: 1886 | Location: Altona Beach | Registered: February 20, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of cfiore
posted Hide Post
I don't post a lot at all. As you all can see by my post count, however I have been coming here religiously for years, almost daily, hell I think over 10 years, I have to look. I love this place and I have never seen Para say or do anything that wasn't justified. And frankly it is his forum so really he can do whatever the hell he wants to. I think Sig Forum is the best run/moderated forum I have been on hands down. It is a no bullshit, great information (on everything) place to go and unwind. I for one love the way you run the place and am grateful to be a member here. Thanks Para and Happy New Year to all my fellow Sig Forumites.
 
Posts: 485 | Location: Colorado | Registered: August 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Where The Hell
Is Roscoe
Picture of daffy
posted Hide Post
This was absolutely hilarious

"So what happened, did HR have you and the mod's attend a Sensitivity Training class, tell you to get some 360 degree peer feedback for your next review? A month ago Arc asks for input and now you are.

All joking aside...."

i also visit this Forum daily -multiple times and enjoy the diversity and expertise of all the members --
Para keep up the great work

daffy



[___________________________________________________________]
Why is it, that when you make something idiot proof, they make a better idiot.
 
Posts: 141 | Location: florence alabama | Registered: February 09, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dirty Boat Guy
Picture of parallel
posted Hide Post
It took me some time to finally figure it out, but I've learned that some folks use the circular argument as a debate tool. It seems to me that these folks have too much time on their hands; I imagine that most are either retired, unemployed, or work somewhere that affords them the luxury of long, drawn out "debates." These can often go on for days, literally.

Even as a simple member I didn't have the time or patience for this, even though I often got drawn into it due to my own... ego, I guess. There is NO way I would, or simply could, engage in this type of anal bead tug-o-war if I were trying to run a forum as large as this.

I've also noted times when Para is short with some members, but I usually note that these are members who have had multiple issues in the past.

I think that most former military and anyone else who have worked in higher positions within a hierarchical system simply get it, while others seem oblivious.




A penny saved is a government oversight.
 
Posts: 6708 | Location: New Orleans Area | Registered: January 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fortified with Sleestak
Picture of thunderson
posted Hide Post
Para I read your original post a couple of times and thought a bit about what I wanted to say. To be fair, I've thought about saying something before now but it just seemed awkward. Given the opportunity I'll now say a few things:


I became a member of this forum 9 years ago. I can honestly say that it seems to me that if anything you have mellowed a bit over the years. Whether you actually have or perhaps I have and that's just my perception...I don't know. It doesn't really matter. What matters is that if you were as big an ass as some butthurt folks make out...this forum wouldn't be what it is today.

Frankly you are very correct regarding moderating or running a forum. I know for a fact I do not have nearly the patience or tolerance it takes to do something like this.

Lastly I am very happy you do take an active role not just administrating but contributing. I don't always agree with your opinion on things but I usually like the way you state it. Also, I've learned a hell of a lot about film here...on a gun forum. That's cool.

OH..one more thing. That thread a while back where you were posting during a party at your house. That was one of the funniest damn threads ever on this forum. And very human I might add.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: thunderson,



I have the heart of a lion.......and a lifetime ban from the Toronto Zoo.- Unknown
 
Posts: 5371 | Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA | Registered: November 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by thunderson:
OH..one more thing. That thread a while back where you were posting during a party at your house. That was one of the funniest damn threads ever on this forum. And very human I might add.

Random stream-of-consciousness, somewhat OT thought: Is the "Don't drink and post" clause in The Waiver suspended on New Year's Eve?



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26027 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I can not, in my wildest dreams, fathom what it takes to run a forum of this size and diversity. I know that I am not capable of moderating/running this monster!! I have been a member for a few years now, and try to stop by daily and get my "Sig Forum Fix". I look forward to coming here and learn what is new and happening in the World, despite the fact that I do watch the news channels. The difference in opinions on a single topic blow me away at times!!


I try to keep my nose clean here, as I am a guest, and I enjoy the forum. Para, I take my hat off to you and all that you accomplish on this forum.
 
Posts: 6768 | Location: Az | Registered: May 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Frangas non Flectes
Picture of P220 Smudge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by darthfuster:
quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMike:
Anyone who complains about how this forum is run has never moderated an Internet forum. Plain as that. (I have, and probably never will again, I lack the requisite patience of Job.)

This place is special, one of the very few I would "pay to play" if a membership fee were required.


Exactly. I used to moderate an off road forum. Ever wonder why pirate4x4 is so harsh? Because people are manipulative jerks when they think they are anonymous. This place is run right with not only the right attitude, but the right unique policies. Those policies may not make immediate sense to everyone, but with experience and consideration, always prove out. I can see that they are well thought out. There are times when initially I thought I would do things differently or address an individual differently but waiting until I had the full picture showed me I would have been wrong and the right thing was done. No, I think we enjoy the environment here for a reason. Second guessing how things are done is a bit like moving out of cesspool into a nice neighborhood but wanting to bring a bit of the cesspool with you. (clumsily put to avoid politics in a non political thread)


I agree with you guys. I was one of four admins on a videogame forum with a few dozen moderators and a very large, active pool of members, mostly adolescent boys (talk about herding squirrels). Did that job for a number of years, and yes, it is a job. There's all kinds of stuff going on behind the scenes most of the membership has no idea about, and frankly shouldn't even try to speculate or comment on.

There's been a number of times over the years that I've been here that I have royally stomped on my dick in front of everybody, and got put in check pretty quickly, sometimes to the tune of a 20 page pile-on. I took my lumps and moved on. Apparently that's what adults do, and hopefully that means I'm becoming one. I've also had a few debates with Para, and yet, I am still here. He's not a bully, and he's more than fair. Honestly, I probably would have showed myself the door were our roles reversed. I've been shown a lot of grace here, and I have learned much from his example, and from the membership. The big one is basically this: Be honest, be fair, but don't take any shit from people, most especially in your own house.

I'm not sure how I fit in here, or even that I do, but I'm really glad and grateful to be a part of this Sigforum thing. It surely wouldn't be the great place that it is without the leadership style of the owner and host. That, I can say without reservation.


______________________________________________
“There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too.”
 
Posts: 17879 | Location: Sonoran Desert | Registered: February 10, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Info Guru
Picture of BamaJeepster
posted Hide Post
Example that as of right now is still on the first page here in the Lounge:

Para: No more Monday morning quarterbacking or critiquing in this thread.

Couple of posts later: Well, I don't want to Monday morning quarterback, BUT...

<Thread locked>

Thought bubble over the offending poster's head:
"That's so unfair!!"

Roll Eyes



“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
- John Adams
 
Posts: 29408 | Location: In the red hinterlands of Deep Blue VA | Registered: June 29, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
posted Hide Post
Para, you're a son of a bitch but you're my kind of son of a bitch.

I've seen the good side of you and have remarked on it before like being "patient" or, especially "breaking one of the rules." That's really on a whole other level of administration that I can admire.

Yes, you bully or it may seem that way. But this isn't a child care facility. We're supposed to be adults in here. And when you need to enforce a rule or do something to make this forum run well, you need to come down with the hammer of Thor. It's more like you're referring several UFC MMA fights at the same time. You don't expect one of those referees to tap one of the fighters gently and ask would you please stop doing that? At times, they run full bore into the fight to break them up before someone gets hurt and that's what you do.

I always go up to and against the line anywhere and I regularly get penalized. But I don't think I've ever run up against you. Why? Because I think it's easy to live with the norms established here. I also don't have to go up to and against any boundaries as a reaction to someone because everybody else here is civil because they know the house rules or most of them do.

I think what people fail to do is to stay in their lane or boundary. They see you doing something and they pass judgment. It doesn't faze me if you do something "strange" because you have shown great instincts in my experience. So if you're doing something as an admin, that's not my concern in terms of the how or why. I just need to make sure I don't break it. And if I ever don't like it, I'll just ask for a refund and go on my merry way.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 20248 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Thought bubble over the offending poster's head:
"That's so unfair!!"

Roll Eyes

FFS. How can people be so utterly dense?



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26027 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ethics, antics,
and ballistics
Picture of Dtech
posted Hide Post
Para, for all the years I've been a member and even a little while longer where I was lurking, I can never recall of a single moment where you were unreasonable or unfair in any of your dealings with any members or in handling of day to day issues and concerns, whether or not they were in some way giving you or someone else a hard time. You have always exhibited understanding, fairness, and a great sense of humor. You are not just the benefactor here either, your contributions frequently set the stage and tone of topics many of us enjoy participating in and are comfortable in doing so whether in jest or seriousness. I even recall one instance in particular where my opinion was not a popular one on a particular topic at the time, and you stepped in and reminded folks that even opposing views kindly and respectfully shared were welcome, especially when they were being shared in a reasonable and genuine manner, regardless of if even you yourself agreed with them. That speaks volumes about your character and your ability to understand people at their core, and even their motivations for posting the things that they do. You had my respect and admiration from very early on which is why I chose to become a member in the first place and why I have gladly been a contributing member here for so long. That particular instance just reaffirmed even further your keen ability to be a profound leader of such a diverse and numerous group of individuals.

I know I'm not alone when I say this forum has been infinitely more entertaining, informative, and enjoyable with your deliberate control of the experience and I am looking forward to the next decade of fun, frivolity, and fraternity here with everyone, which is unquestionably my cyberspace hangout of choice and a digital experience run by a class act.

Happy New Year 2020 and thank you!


-Dtech
__________________________

"I've got a life to live, people to love, and a God to serve!" - sigmonkey

"Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value." - Albert Einstein

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" ― Rudyard Kipling
 
Posts: 4417 | Location: Central Florida | Registered: April 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BansheeOne:
quote:
Originally posted by i8mtm:
You asked for feedback in how you run this forum. In my opinion, you do not like when people disagree with you. It frequently results in censorship that I believe is unwarranted.

Censoring people that are off-topic, posting threats, or just generally being an ass is entirely different. Kudos to you for patrolling that.
As someone who frequently goes against the board's majority opinion, including the owner's - something I don't wake up every morning intending to do today, and don't take pride in à la "ohhh, I'm such a steadfast outsider, the Lone Internet Ranger of truth" - I can not complain about censorship. Exhibit A: I'm still here 14 years later.

Yes, admins have a bully pulpit. They are also humans with opinions, and it would be unreasonable to expect them censoring themselves, on their own board. That means they can certainly engage in debate the same robust, opinonated way as many others here do. And I think that when confronted like that, posters tend to project their fear of getting banned etc. and cry "censorship", or withdraw under cover of "your house, your rules" without an actual danger to them. Which means they likely have one or several problems: Taking debate too personal, seeking harmony and avoiding challenge too much; and above all being unsure of their own argument and/or behavior. Essentially, complaining about censorship is often just chickening out.

Sure there are exceptions. Humans are emotional, prejudiced, fallible, and sometimes unjust. I'm not going to invoke the stress of moderating a discussion board on an internet full of anonymous loonies from all over the world, because that's also a choice you keep pursuing, or don't - just like board members do. Personally, for me SigForum remains a reference board for American political and societal debate (at least on the right, but that reflects general issues). I'm drawn to counter misconceptions about the rest of the world I sense, but I had to learn getting over myself and stick to factual rather than getting embroiled in emotional debate, too. If I wasn't able to make my case without engaging in namecalling contests, it would probably serve me right to get banned.

Ultimately, from our posting styles and post subjects I suspect that Parabellum and I are really rather similar in our personalities and interests, while disagreeing on some key topics. People tend to have most conflicts with others who are just like them, so why don't they just see things like me?!! Realizing that helps a lot in overcoming the urge to wail "Bully! Censorship! Unfair! I'm leaving!" After all, where would I go?
Well, goodness, yes. Although it hadn't occurred to me, BansheeOne is probably the prime example of my tolerance of opposing views. My political views are diametricaally opposed to those of BansheeOne. I cannot think of even one single instance where our politics coincide. I give him ten kinds of Hell over it, but yes, as you can see, his posting rights remain intact. The reason for this is that he has given me no cause to remove him from the forum. He presents his views calmly and accepts direction from me in this venue without hesitation.

Banshee, I thank you for speaking up and for pointing out all the things you have. Quite frankly, I'm touched by your remarks. No one could have faulted you if you hadn't said a word in this thread. I give you my word that I will take it easy on you from now on- that is, until the senility kicks in and I begin standing by the road and shouting at passing traffic. I can't promise anything after that.

And i8mtm is correct- I do not like it when people disagree with me. Absolutely correct. But, if you behave as BansheeOne has- presenting your views calmly and reasonably, and are willing to take direction from me- such as complying when I say 'that's enough'- you shouldn't have any problems here. It is those who insist on hammering at a point after I say 'enough' who get into hot water. Anyone who thinks this is unreasonable here, well, then, I'm unreasonable, but Banshee is the prime example of a member's attitude making all the difference.


____________________________________________________

"I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023
 
Posts: 110016 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shit don't
mean shit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
Y'see, this is good- a cleansing, a purging, one might say- a high colonic in preparation for the coming new year. Get it all out.

There will be some revision of the waiver. For 2020, we will require a DNA sample, a credit report, psych eval. nothing major.


It's almost like a Festivus! The airing of the Grievances has begun! I guess I missed diner. Razz

The celebration of Festivus begins with Airing of Grievances, which takes place immediately after the Festivus dinner has been served.
 
Posts: 5835 | Location: 7400 feet in Conifer CO | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bald Headed Squirrel Hunter
Picture of Angus the Kid
posted Hide Post
I've been on this forum over 17 years. I really don't post much, but I'm lurking each and every day.

I don't think anyone can imagine the dedication it takes Para in administering such a large forum. I have no complaints, only compliments.

Para and I got crossways only once years ago. The topic was Bruce Springsteen of all things. That's all I remember.



"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"
 
Posts: 6168 | Location: In the tent, in Houston, in Texas | Registered: October 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Happy New Year Para, keep on keeping on!
 
Posts: 2714 | Registered: March 22, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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