quote:

I am GenX with pre-boomer parents, and we are largely ignored in most discussions. We were the last analog generation that grew up without helicopter parents, roaming free and unsupervised as kids, but never having anything really bad happen. Boomers and Millennials and Gen Z are all the talk is about.

Same here.

The boomers won't be in control much longer, and...

Gen Z would rather cut Social Security benefits for retirees than raise their own taxes to keep the program afloat.
https://www.fa-mag.com/news/ge...tax-hikes-85264.html

I’m not convinced that there will be cuts, but the retirement ages will be going up. There is no choice. Millions in their 20s, 30s, and 40, not working and thus not putting into the pot are going to require it. That, and the increasing life expectancy.

My solution is both the above, and SEVERELY cutting back on welfare handouts (EBT, SNAP, etc…) and rolling that money into SS/Medicare. There is no good reason to be supporting people able to work who choose not to work. None whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

Gen Z would rather cut Social Security benefits for retirees than raise their own taxes to keep the program afloat.
https://www.fa-mag.com/news/ge...tax-hikes-85264.html

This shouldn’t be seen as a surprise to anyone. Some might say that turnabout is fair play. One could say that the boomer generation pushed back the retirement age of social security for future generations rather than potentially reduce their benefits. As a gen X’er I don’t really have a dog in the fight, but I’m not at all surprised that people are looking out for themselves first over another generation.

quote:

Absolutely unrelated, but as someone who leans younger…

Yes, sorry. I didn't mean to take us off topic.
The Social Security reference was more about the Boomer generation aging out and giving up control/influence.

quote:

more and more land use restrictions

Sure. I love the million-dollar duplex's that they slap on a 50 x 100 lot with five feet between the buildings.

quote:

boomer generation pushed back the retirement age of social security for future generations rather than potentially reduce their benefits.

So? Why should they have the benefits they paid for cut? Because the govt. used the fund as a piggy bank?

The reason that there was a shortfall is due to the reduction of preeminent full-time staff that started 15 years ago.

As far as the change in age...that was done 43 years ago. 24 months were added to get the max benefit. It was the same year that they cut benefits to anyone who had a govt pension.

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:

quote:

more and more land use restrictions

Sure. I love the million-dollar duplex's that they slap on a 50 x 100 lot with five feet between the buildings.

I'm not talking about zoning or setback requirements. I'm fully in favor of keeping towns nice by limiting rental properties and apartments, and ensuring reasonable space between homes. I'm talking about not allowing new construction in certain areas to prevent "sprawl" and maintain "natural spaces", which limits the supply of houses and drives up costs of existing ones. I'm against cities like San Francisco essentially not allowing any new units to be built through myraid regulations, when most of the city is low rise buildings that could easily be replaced with taller buildings.

According to the Manhattan Institute (conservative publisher of City Journal), many cities set up perimeters that you can't develop outside of, many years ago. Now we've hit those limits and cities can no longer expand. A lot of this is because leftist urbanists hate suburbs and cars and want everyone living in cities in high rises and using public transportation.

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:

quote:

boomer generation pushed back the retirement age of social security for future generations rather than potentially reduce their benefits.

So? Why should they have the benefits they paid for cut? Because the govt. used the fund as a piggy bank?

The reason that there was a shortfall is due to the reduction of preeminent full-time staff that started 15 years ago.

As far as the change in age...that was done 43 years ago. 24 months were added to get the max benefit. It was the same year that they cut benefits to anyone who had a govt pension.

No one "paid for" their benefits. They paid for the current beneficiaries. It's a tax, not an investment. All excess SS tax receipts go to the general treasury fund by law, and it has been this way since inception of SS. SS was a way for FDR to get even more income tax money out of the people, most of it going to the treasury because there were very few recipients early on. But he pretended it was some kind of investment, calling it a "trust fund" even though it doesn't remotely meet any of the requirements of a trust fund.

The system is insolvent. The "trust fund" has a bunch of debt that can only be used for SS debt. The only way to solvency is to pay down that debt using funds from somewhere else. Such is the folly of the government owing itself money. The only way forward is changing SS to an investment system where your money goes into a managed investment account. Of course the managed account has to run by fiduciaries and immune from political influence which will not be easy. Ages of eligibility have to go up and people have to get used to working longer as people live longer. The 65 year retirement age was set by Otto Von Bismarck in the 1870's. The intent was never for people to live in retirement for 20-30 years.

quote:

No one "paid for" their benefits. They paid for the current beneficiaries. It's a tax, not an investment. All excess SS tax receipts go to the general treasury fund by law, and it has been this way since inception of SS.

Yeah... and I would greatly prefer a 401k type account instead but it's not gonna happen in my lifetime...

Retirement Planning, Capitalism, Socialism, and the Power of Education
https://www.americanthinker.co...er_of_education.html

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Remember Reloader, the basic premise for these people is, "Fuck you I got mine!" I can tell you today, with no uncertainty there is only one group of people, one generation who those who came before and after both hate. The boomers will go down as the single worst people in the history of western civilization they killed Europe, and are doing their best to kill the United States. No generation before in human history did more to make life worse for their children then the "Me generation." That's how the Gen Z historians already view them, and no one trusts millennials and gen x doesn't care enough to have an opinion after a lifetime of abuse. So that will be how it gets recorded, and rightly so.

The classic historical analysis: “Boomers ruined everything.” Interesting, especially when supported by zero facts.

I’m a boomer. I’ve been working since sixth grade. That started with physical labor—manual sprinkler irrigation in southeast Idaho. If you’ve never done that at 5:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., seven days a week, from spring through fall, I highly recommend it. It's a character-builder.

From 1970 through the late ’70s, I worked in a family lumber yard, which occasionally required missing school or turning in partial homework because work still had to get done. After that, I spent the next four decades as a software engineer. Like many in the field, I enjoyed the dot-com crash and the 2008 financial crisis, both of which came with roughly 50% pay cuts just to remain employed. Apparently, that was the part where everything was “easy.”

So when I hear that my generation “killed Europe” and is now “killing the United States,” I’m genuinely curious which policies, decisions, or actions you’re referring to. Not vibes. Not generational astrology. Actual causes.

I’m old enough that I don’t need approval from internet historians, but my wife, children, and grandchildren seem reasonably satisfied with the outcomes so far.

If you’d like to talk about how to make things better for younger generations, I’m open to that. If the plan is simply to assign blame by birth year, then I assume the solution is what?

It's not about exceptions, it's about averages.

Boomer and boomer-adjacent-silent-generation politicians have run up massive national debt. It amounts to massive vote buying, and handouts to the politically favored in exchange for "campaign contributions". This is undeniable fact. And they will get all their SS and Medicare and bankrupt the system and GenX and later will get the short end.

The greatest generation was frugal. So frugal they repainted and cleaned up the car Kennedy got shot in and CONTINUED TO US IT FOR LBJ. It was a perfectly good car. Can you imagine that today?

Boomers have selfishly defined every era they lived.

When they were young it was all about them fighting against the Vietnam war and for civil rights (except they were too young to do much with civil rights - early boomers from 1946 were only 18 when civil rights passed in 1964). There parents were wrong and they were going to change the world.

In the 70's they got stoned and slept around and that was ok then. In the 80's they became yuppies. Now they are retiring and it's the younger people that are the problem. It is boomer's parenting that created Millennials, right?

All the great popular music is Boomer music.

I could go on, but as a GenX "baby buster" I've had to hear boomers my entire life talking about how great they are and ignoring or trivializing every other generation.

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Remember Reloader, the basic premise for these people is, "Fuck you I got mine!" I can tell you today, with no uncertainty there is only one group of people, one generation who those who came before and after both hate. The boomers will go down as the single worst people in the history of western civilization they killed Europe, and are doing their best to kill the United States. No generation before in human history did more to make life worse for their children then the "Me generation." That's how the Gen Z historians already view them, and no one trusts millennials and gen x doesn't care enough to have an opinion after a lifetime of abuse. So that will be how it gets recorded, and rightly so.

The classic historical analysis: “Boomers ruined everything.” Interesting, especially when supported by zero facts.

I’m a boomer. I’ve been working since sixth grade. That started with physical labor—manual sprinkler irrigation in southeast Idaho. If you’ve never done that at 5:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m., seven days a week, from spring through fall, I highly recommend it. It's a character-builder.

From 1970 through the late ’70s, I worked in a family lumber yard, which occasionally required missing school or turning in partial homework because work still had to get done. After that, I spent the next four decades as a software engineer. Like many in the field, I enjoyed the dot-com crash and the 2008 financial crisis, both of which came with roughly 50% pay cuts just to remain employed. Apparently, that was the part where everything was “easy.”

So when I hear that my generation “killed Europe” and is now “killing the United States,” I’m genuinely curious which policies, decisions, or actions you’re referring to. Not vibes. Not generational astrology. Actual causes.

I’m old enough that I don’t need approval from internet historians, but my wife, children, and grandchildren seem reasonably satisfied with the outcomes so far.

If you’d like to talk about how to make things better for younger generations, I’m open to that. If the plan is simply to assign blame by birth year, then I assume the solution is what?

But I repeat myself

quote:

there seems to be a view of "my individual experience was this way, and that means more than aggregate data."

Here, I'll break out and highlight the facts for you.


***Here it comes! read below!***

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:

First time homebuyers are the oldest they've ever been, and we as western civilization are suffering extreme population collapse. so it's not some subset but the vast majority under 40 are failing to thrive where as boomers are wealthier than they've ever been

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
It's not about exceptions, it's about averages.

Boomer and boomer-adjacent-silent-generation politicians have run up massive national debt. It amounts to massive vote buying, and handouts to the politically favored in exchange for "campaign contributions". This is undeniable fact. And they will get all their SS and Medicare and bankrupt the system and GenX and later will get the short end.

The greatest generation was frugal. So frugal they repainted and cleaned up the car Kennedy got shot in and CONTINUED TO US IT FOR LBJ. It was a perfectly good car. Can you imagine that today?

Boomers have selfishly defined every era they lived.

When they were young it was all about them fighting against the Vietnam war and for civil rights (except they were too young to do much with civil rights - early boomers from 1946 were only 18 when civil rights passed in 1964). There parents were wrong and they were going to change the world.

In the 70's they got stoned and slept around and that was ok then. In the 80's they became yuppies. Now they are retiring and it's the younger people that are the problem. It is boomer's parenting that created Millennials, right?

All the great popular music is Boomer music.

I could go on, but as a GenX "baby buster" I've had to hear boomers my entire life talking about how great they are and ignoring or trivializing every other generation.

Averages: the statistical method that turns millions of people into a single villain.

You’re right that politicians (many of them boomers) ran up massive debt. They were also elected, re-elected, and enthusiastically supported by voters from every generation once those generations showed up to vote.

Social Security and Medicare weren’t “handouts”; they were programs people paid into for decades. Blaming the recipients for decades of bipartisan mismanagement is certainly convenient, thank you for pointing out the obvious Einstein.

The Greatest Generation comparison is lame. They were frugal, no doubt — though I suspect continuing to use the Kennedy limousine had more to do with logistics than moral superiority.

The boomer life-cycle bitch is also noted: protest as a young dick head, adapt in adulthood, retire in old age. Weird how that works isn't it?

Boomers have ruined the world and somehow raised entire generations who are now helpless victims of that parenting. That’s an impressive level of incompetence?

Every generation thinks the one before it broke everything. The only difference is that some of us eventually notice we have a hand on the wheel. Have you? Nope.

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Remember Reloader, the basic premise for these people is, "Fuck you I got mine!" I can tell you today, with no uncertainty there is only one group of people, one generation who those who came before and after both hate. The boomers will go down as the single worst people in the history of western civilization they killed Europe, and are doing their best to kill the United States. No generation before in human history did more to make life worse for their children then the "Me generation." That's how the Gen Z historians already view them, and no one trusts millennials and gen x doesn't care enough to have an opinion after a lifetime of abuse. So that will be how it gets recorded, and rightly so.

That’s funny because I’m not a boomer. Sorry to disappoint you. Gen X. Additionally, I’ve worked full time since I was 10 years old. Been taking care of myself since 6, nobody home so essentially I wasted myself. I’ve busted my ass in this life. Nothing was handed to me. I’m extremely grateful to be an American, born and raised. In no other country could I come from Section 8 living to owning a home, having degrees, etc. And I did it all myself with no help from anyone sans my government who graciously gave me a Pell Grant that I could use for 3 semesters. I could have kept using it but I leveled up in College working in my field and switching jobs to make more money.

At 21, or 25, I wasn’t buying $1000 phones or any of the rest of the shit that goes on today. At those ages, I had a simple, used, economy car, and was working full time while going to college full time. Living in an efficiency apartment, and was the living the opposite of my “best life”. There is no “fuck you I got mine” attitude here. I have volunteered for many years, donated money. Generalizations are rampant on both sides.

quote:

At 21, or 25, I wasn’t buying $1000 phones or any of the rest of the shit that goes on today.

Dude, at 21, or 25, none of that shit existed...Just Sayin'

Oh, and 'FenderBender' is NOT wrong here!

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Remember Reloader, the basic premise for these people is, "Fuck you I got mine!" I can tell you today, with no uncertainty there is only one group of people, one generation who those who came before and after both hate. The boomers will go down as the single worst people in the history of western civilization they killed Europe, and are doing their best to kill the United States. No generation before in human history did more to make life worse for their children then the "Me generation." That's how the Gen Z historians already view them, and no one trusts millennials and gen x doesn't care enough to have an opinion after a lifetime of abuse. So that will be how it gets recorded, and rightly so.

That’s funny because I’m not a boomer. Sorry to disappoint you. Gen X. Additionally, I’ve worked full time since I was 10 years old. Been taking care of myself since 6, nobody home so essentially I wasted myself. I’ve busted my ass in this life. Nothing was handed to me. I’m extremely grateful to be an American, born and raised. In no other country could I come from Section 8 living to owning a home, having degrees, etc. And I did it all myself with no help from anyone sans my government who graciously gave me a Pell Grant that I could use for 3 semesters. I could have kept using it but I leveled up in College working in my field and switching jobs to make more money.

At 21, or 25, I wasn’t buying $1000 phones or any of the rest of the shit that goes on today. At those ages, I had a simple, used, economy car, and was working full time while going to college full time. Living in an efficiency apartment, and was the living the opposite of my “best life”. There is no “fuck you I got mine” attitude here. I have volunteered for many years, donated money. Generalizations are rampant on both sides.

Thanks Prefontaine, I was afraid my generation was the only one responsible for the collapse of society as we know it Rock On Fender!

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by FenderBender:
Remember Reloader, the basic premise for these people is, "Fuck you I got mine!" I can tell you today, with no uncertainty there is only one group of people, one generation who those who came before and after both hate. The boomers will go down as the single worst people in the history of western civilization they killed Europe, and are doing their best to kill the United States. No generation before in human history did more to make life worse for their children then the "Me generation." That's how the Gen Z historians already view them, and no one trusts millennials and gen x doesn't care enough to have an opinion after a lifetime of abuse. So that will be how it gets recorded, and rightly so.

That’s funny because I’m not a boomer. Sorry to disappoint you. Gen X. Additionally, I’ve worked full time since I was 10 years old. Been taking care of myself since 6, nobody home so essentially I wasted myself. I’ve busted my ass in this life. Nothing was handed to me. I’m extremely grateful to be an American, born and raised. In no other country could I come from Section 8 living to owning a home, having degrees, etc. And I did it all myself with no help from anyone sans my government who graciously gave me a Pell Grant that I could use for 3 semesters. I could have kept using it but I leveled up in College working in my field and switching jobs to make more money.

At 21, or 25, I wasn’t buying $1000 phones or any of the rest of the shit that goes on today. At those ages, I had a simple, used, economy car, and was working full time while going to college full time. Living in an efficiency apartment, and was the living the opposite of my “best life”. There is no “fuck you I got mine” attitude here. I have volunteered for many years, donated money. Generalizations are rampant on both sides.

Thanks Prefontaine, I was afraid my generation was the only one responsible for the collapse of society as we know it Rock On Fender!

Don't trust anyone over 30, maaaaan

quote:

Originally posted by Bytes:
Social Security and Medicare weren’t “handouts”; they were programs people paid into for decades. Blaming the recipients for decades of bipartisan mismanagement is certainly convenient, thank you for pointing out the obvious Einstein.

Boomers have ruined the world and somehow raised entire generations who are now helpless victims of that parenting. That’s an impressive level of incompetence?

Every generation thinks the one before it broke everything. The only difference is that some of us eventually notice we have a hand on the wheel. Have you? Nope.

By handouts I meant the massive grift to the politically favored that we are now finding out via DOGE, the green energy boondoggles, the endless array of NGO's that take government money and accomplish nothing but enriching themselves and kicking money back to the politicians.

As the boomers die off, everyone after them is left holding the massive national debt bag. The day of reckoning hasn't happened yet. When it comes it could rival the Great Depression. China is doing everything they can to help crash the dollar and then step in with their RMB to replace it.

Boomers gave away our entire industrial base which is unforgivable and a threat to national security.

Millenials are indeed victims of their Boomer parents. At least Gen Z (raised by GenX) is more realist and more conservative overall.

I have my hand on the wheel, but I made the mistake of voting for Perot in 1992. Bush lied about no new taxes and Clinton was full of shit. And Clinton - a boomer - got elected due to Perot siphoning Bush's votes. Had we stuck with Bush things might be a lot different today.

When I was looking to buy the first home, 1977 "starter" (entry/affordable) home about $45k and 8.5% for first time buyer. (median)

Today that is about $240 today and 5.5%.

And, luxury of the day was telephone, TV, cable, 2nd car, stereo system, albums, cameras, higher end furnishings.

A lot of those things that were "nice to have", but other than the phone and tv, radio. We did without.
(the phone because I was military and on flying duty subject to world wide no-notice deployment)
The radio, then the TV, took a little over a year to acquire.

Both I and my wife worked. I rode a motorcycle, and she drove, or we "shared" rides with others during times we only had one means of transportation or to save gas money.

And 55 cent gas then is todays $3 gas now, but todays better fuel mileage helps wash the higher vehicle costs. But overall, "what I could afford then", would be about the same thing I could afford today with the same value of income and the same level of vehicle purchased today at similar buying power and what is "entry level" vehicles.

The amount of money pissed away, by people that believe the "have to have" everything, is silly.

In America, almost everyone has a phone, some have phones, tablets and computers, including the children, many before they are adolescent.

The idea that we were smothered in wealth and today's young people are living in a wasteland, strip-mined and barren of anything but blowing dust and little water is silly, yet that is the bleak tell that is told in the cold harsh night, around a blackened spot where not firewood can be had to burn.

Yeah. Grow a pair, instead of fear of "toxic masculinity" preventing males from being men, and asserting, forging, fighting their own fears of failing.

Hint #1 Everyone will fail along the way, and learning to fail forward, and only retreat to get a better running start at the next obstacle will help propel one further.

Hint #2. After that obstacle is dealt with, there will be more.

Hint #3. Goto #1...


"I guess it comes down to a simple choice really- get busy living, or get busy dying."
-Andy Dufresne
The Shawshank Redemption