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| Victim of Life's Circumstances  |
The root cause is 1971 decision to go off gold standard. ________________________ God spelled backwards is dog | |||
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| As Extraordinary as Everyone Else  |
While I agree with this let me point out that the vast majority of first time home buyers don’t need to purchase a home within the medium price. The vast majority NEED to settle for a smaller, more affordable home. I’ll bet that virtually everyone here had a smaller first home. I know I did. So that makes the affordability question skewed much more in favor of being affordable… ------------------ Eddie Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina | |||
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A Grateful American |
Housing prices have risen 330% 1980 to mid-2025. Wages have risen 295% during that same period. Both are adjusted for inflation. That may put a harsh on what "entry level home" may be in terms of value compared to earlier years, but it is certainly still available to those that want it more than they want some other things. The majority of people want to blame and and everything on someone/something else than their own life choices and decisions. There are many that have had better opportunities and made wiser choices, and there are those that have had less optimal opportunities and made poor life choices, and then there are those that have pushed harder tilting advantages, and those that put forth little or no effort to do so. All of that, from one extreme to the other and everything in between is how life simply is. The hard circumstance one is born into can be forged or crushed with the same weight, and in spite of another born into the best of circumstances, piss it all away with no help from anyone or anything. It's always that, it never changes. In spite of that the individual has to choose and choose wisely and consistently. The "exceptions to the rule" are the worst thing anyone can "hope and wait" to happen in their favor. Despise every person born before you for your belief of them making your life difficult rather than doing all you can to make your way through yours. If they did or did not have zero at all to do with where you are, and where you can/will go. It's all history to you on day one, and you can do absolutely nothing about it except bitch. The past is not your past, so don't try to exist in it, all you can do is learn from it and apply what you learn for your own "now". All are born with an appetite and the ability to breath. From that point on, if you make it to the point where you start deciding, you are the Captain of your ship, and the sea doesn't give a fuck about you. Hate it for what it is, not for those that point it out. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא עוד | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
Where are you getting those numbers from? Doesn't seem like that is the case around here. Housing prices and wages seem WILDLY out of whack. House on my street just sold and I looked up the price history. From when it was sold in 1997 to 2015 it went up $38,000 in price. 18 years for it to increase $38,000 They just sold it last week and from 2015 to 2025 it went up something like $110,000 in price. In 10 years it went up $110,000 and it's only really the past 3-4 years that the prices accelerated like they did. | |||
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We Are...MARSHALL |
Like most issues this is a multi factorial problem. I agree with a lot of thoughts mentioned in the thread already but I have a few ideas that I believe also play a significant role in the equation. Social adjustments. Two income families were less common for many years. Naturally those with two incomes had the ability to get ahead financially. However, factor in children. In many instances families with two incomes still had children. Childcare was often provided by the previous generation who had a homemaker present and was happy to provide the childcare at no cost. However the next generation that wanted to benefit from a two income scenario faced a more difficult situation as the previous generation had no homemaker willing and able to provide childcare at no cost as they were a part of the first two income generation. A solution quickly presented itself in the form of daycares after all those willing to watch children on the side at a discounted price dried up. Naturally childcare is not cheap. Divorce. Many here have experienced divorce like myself. It’s painful and it’s expensive. Across the nation the divorce rate continues to increase. A family unit previously required one home and now the same family unit needs two homes. Additional children may be avoided given the history of divorce or the fear of divorce in the future which factors into the birth rate decline. We’ve become a throw away society. When something no longer functions perfectly it’s tossed and replaced with new. There’s minimal if any attempt at repair because in most cases it’s more cost effective to replace rather than repair. Television and the internet has informed everybody what everyone else has and doesn’t have so now we must keep up with everyone else more than ever before, regardless of cost. HGTV is a classic example where we see wonderful designs that are “must have”. Previous generations didn’t remodel or renovate unless there was significant damage or need. It was function over appearance most of the time. This has lead to bigger homes which are “starter” homes. Children have their own rooms rather than sharing rooms etc. A larger percentage of young people are empowered to live their lives and worry about settling down later if ever. It’s a limited responsibility model that is appealing. Have all the fun until the fun runs out and move on. Unfortunately this lifestyle is not conducive to purchasing a home. There’s also the fact that many in the younger generation don’t want to perform routine maintenance and tasks such as lawn care and automatically factor that into their budget when they do decide to buy a home. Retirement planning is more prevalent. While this isn’t a bad thing it still pulls 5% if the income from young professionals. Previous generations didn’t necessarily prepare for retirement as well or as early as this generation. The previous generations viewed a home as a home and an investment and now they’re seeing a return on their investments. Again, just some ideas that I feel are factors in addition to many already mentioned. Build a man a fire and keep him warm for a night, set a man on fire and keep him warm the rest of his life. | |||
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Happily Retired |
Sigmonkey, that was an excellent post...and spot on! .....never marry a woman who is mean to your waitress. | |||
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| A Grateful American |
The world is bigger than your block. The numbers are median all USA data points. A house like you mention is the "lower end" of the affordable house as I was referencing. (I am guessing $70-80K?) It is doable for someone that wants to do without a lot of frivolous things. But with today's "new normal", If I posted such a notion on the majority younger group of early 20s to late 30s social media sights, all I would read would be: "Yeah, sure boomer! We gonna eat raman noodles and send up smoke signals while wearing potato sack clothes like you did!!!? Not gonna happen! It's all because... yada yada yada." These are a couple houses I built. To contrast the house you mention above, here are a couple in the Florida Panhandle, the first, modest "starter" (at the time), and the second, upscale "beach style" medium to high end. Both show the value of the area, but are still reasonable compared to things like I looked at about 5 years ago at 2 to 4 times the cost for the same thing, in Sarasota, St. Augustine and surrounding areas. First house I built, and lived in two years, while I was still active duty, was the first lot sold in the subdivision, so the builder worked with us as we wanted to make changes and upgrade quite a bit, and he was able to use it as it was being built to help sell more of the subdivision. This was in '89, $66,500, now listed at $290,000. Interior 1/4 acre lot, little over 1200 sq. Florida Panhandle. (I did very well on this with some of the design and work, so after I retired, I went into homebuilding for a couple years, but bailed after a couple hurricanes in the mid 90s, and the hassle with the whole contracting/supply chain gig) There are houses I built in a subdivision back in mid 90s, many that have sold since then. One initial sale $264k in early'95 and on market for $1M. (others are comparable) It's interior on beach in Destin 1/5th acre, 2400 sq. Florida panhandle. Compare all that to my current house of 2000 sq on 20 acres for less than 1/4M, with a large shop. The point is there are a lot of very high dollar houses, but there are also a lot of lower cost houses as well. Much of the numbers are driven by the agendas of those providing them. So much of what is "news and information" is garbage. One has to put on their walking shoes, and hit the bricks a start putting eyes on the problem. Some areas of the country are nuts with the prices, and some are very reasonable. Being flexible in moving, changing careers and other things might be required. Make the decision to move forward or not. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא עוד | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
You make a very good point that first time home buyers don't need to purchase a home within the median price. But even as I write in support of what you said, I just realized that, on average, the number of homes on the market available for sale should really be steady and if the median price keeps going up, then it means every house below that median has been going up also. Mathematically, for the median to go up and the prices of houses below the median price to remain as they are, that means more and more houses are on the market at higher prices than the base median price which is very unlikely. It's more reasonable to assume houses coming up for sale is across the total range and the median price is going up because they prices of those additional houses are in the higher range. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Member |
Huh? Why keep up with anyone else? Why do people even care? Care what your family and friends think. Real family and friends. And pretty much fuck what everyone else thinks. Everyone else doesn’t pay your bills. Far too many are doing the joneses thing with domicile, vehicle, attire, vacations, etc and that’s their own fault and they need to quit whining. Live within your means. Quit worrying about what strangers think. Quit watching commercials. Get off social media. Live your own life. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| His Royal Hiney |
Okay, even assuming you're correct and I'm not saying you're wrong, that train has already left the station. What is your proposal, go back to the gold standard? How will we execute that plan and what are the repercussions? "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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Member |
Thank you sigmonkey for putting the actual facts on display - this is what was needed: Median house price, 1980 - $63,700 Median house price, 2025 - $410,800 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSPUS Median wages have risen 295% since 1980 Median home prices have risen 545% since 1980 Ignoring that everything else, including education has also vastly outpaced wage growth, that’s enough to make housing unaffordable. | |||
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Member |
Unaffordable assuming single income purchaser w/o any method of reducing the mortgage principle to a manageable level. If the purchaser is actually something like a DINK and/or the purchaser has investments that can be liquidated to bring the principle down to a manageable level, then wages are sufficient. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Honky Lips |
 _____________________________________________ Proverbs 3:31 "Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." | |||
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| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
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| Member |
Median new home size is 1,820 sq ft, which is larger but hardly enormous. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEDSQUFEEUS Remember, median means that the cheap, affordable homes are also more expensive as well. Good argument, but that doesn’t explain the doubling in affordability since 1970. Re: DINK, the whole point of this is to address why people are buying homes so late, and not having kids. The WSJ had an article on a gay throuple (don’t ask…), of course they can afford some super expensive house in NYC or wherever. | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
Yes, hard working industrious younger people with good jobs that make good money can afford smaller "starter" homes. Above average people can usually afford below average stuff. But averages are the problem. Median is the "middle one" but in practice it is a better estimate of "average" because it factors out the absurdly priced high end that will "blow the curve". And on average wages are way behind housing values. Median new home size is higher than the past, but if you count the existing housing stock, the median size is not that huge as stated above. Everyone is cherry picking data - median new size in the past versus median new size in the present, instead of median size of ALL HOMES. The fact that divorced couples need "another" house is something we need to consider. When people got married young and bought houses in their 20's, you needed one house for every two adults. Now we need proportionally more because of more people living single for a longer amount of time before marriage, and more divorces after marriage. Now here's the part most of the media doesn't want to say out loud. I posted about the active shooter in my neighborhood yesterday. Black kid 18 years old with a gun shooting at cops. Never in a million years would I expect that to happen here. Probably renters, not owners, but I will see if I can find out. Across the country there is a coordinated effort by the left to put 3rd world immigrants and ghetto people into quiet/low-crime suburbs by building lower cost housing, and using section 8 and other subsidies. We all know that such people bring their problems with them. The schools here are now 30%+ minority, with 16% ESL and 49% reduced/free lunches. In a town where new houses are doing for $500K+. And this has happened with very Republican local government. So the issue is not just average or median prices. It's prices in a place you want to live safely with good schools and no riff-raff. | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
Education and student loans have been mention several times. Let’s see: 1992 tuition at my alma mater: $1,600 Summer job - 12 weeks, 40 hours a week, $5.25/hr: $2,520 2025 tuition, same school: $9,050 Summer job @ $15/hr: $7,200 On the surface, wages have not kept pace with tuition, but who pays full price today? Tuition at UF and really any Florida public school is about $6,500 a year. Despite wages not keeping up, it’s still affordable by anyone willing to work. Put a little effort in in high school, get a B average, 75 hours of community service, a 1220 SAT score and anyone student in Florida will get about 70% off on the tuition. No loans needed, just a bit of work. That’s before any other scholarship or aid. I don’t know any kids not going to college because they can’t afford it. I know a few that aren’t going to their first choice out of state or private school because they can’t afford it, but that’s a decision we all face everyday. Same goes for the housing market. Talking about means and medians is a bit meaningless in a discussion of affordability as that’s not where people are buying starter homes. They’re not saving for a down payment on a home priced at the median. Making generalizations about the entire country by focusing two specific statistical numbers and dismissing peoples’ local area knowledge as too specific is somewhat hypocritical. Inflation is fun, but home prices are based on supply and demand more than inflation. Back in 2009, we bought a house for less than half what the previous owner’s had in it when they built it 4 year before hand. The price we paid had nothing to do with inflation. Despite the money you’ve saved for a down payment losing to inflation, you win in a down market. Besides, your down payment money should be invested in stocks and at least keep up with inflation if not beat it. | |||
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| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
Around here the catch phrase is "affordable housing", which is sometimes simply a Dem vote buying ploy, but usually it is a corrupt way for developers to obtain permissions and taxpayer money along with politicians gaining votes and tax dollars to spend. I suspect in the larger view there is some measure of hating the rich, so move those problem demographics into the nice neighborhoods, but here the city and state government seem to be more selfishly oriented towards their own rewards. Mind you this is a major ski resort town. About 1/5th of the homes are owner-occupied full time. A sizable portion of all stand-alone homes are 2nd or 3rd homes of the uber-wealthy, occupied maybe 30 days of the year. The remainder, either houses or condos, are now rentals. Median price of a single-family standalone house is well north of $5M. 1 BR condos go for about $2M along with huge HOA fees. Outside of the center of things the prices do drop to more rational levels. Of course the hourly workers staffing the restaurants, shops, and ski mountain cannot afford to live here! But why should they? | |||
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| Conservative in Nor Cal constantly swimming up stream  |
Out here in the SF Bay Area housing prices are just stupid. My modest 2,030 sq ft home has increased over $1.1 million in 23 years. Very small lot with neighbors 20' away on all sides. @$1.6+ million, I could not afford it today. Bought it in 2002 for $500k. Just the property taxes alone would bury me. I'm glad it's paid off... I don't envy anybody trying to get in the market for the first time. ----------------------------------- Get your guns b4 the Dems take them away Sig P-229 Sig P-220 Combat | |||
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| Member |
I'm not as young as I used to be and unfortunately in my situation I like many others live in a area within certain states that the price of housing is impossible for people like me to afford. Unless I can or am willing to move to a poorer less desired area within the state or just pack up for another state all together. Why you may ask because the cost of housing has priced many regular people out of the market unless you are a high income earner like the worst offenders the local and imported H1B engineers that drove up the prices of rent on the nicer newer rentals and bought up all the left over housing. Where I live a 3 bedroom condo built in the 70's is between 800K - to a million bucks. While a brand new house is easily 2 to 2.5 million dollars. If I want to live in a shit-hole I can buy a old run down 30 year old home for 400K. I don't need anything fancy or big but they just don't build small starter homes anymore not profitable enough for builders when they can go big and rake in the dollars. I've been saving for 20 years now, scrimping and saving I drive a 18 year old car to save money and even with help of a second earner still will never be able to purchase a home here. The only real solution I see for myself and many others is just move to another state no matter whatever draw backs and buy a house cash vs trying to buy in a state/area you will never be able to afford. If it wasn't for my job I'd be out of here in a heartbeat. | |||
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