The leading, #1 cause of death in men in the USA, ages 18-45 is fentanyl. It is at 3X historical opioid overdoses in last two years in white men. 5X in black men. These are not overdoses. This is the poisoning of American men.

It destroys our most important purpose here on earth; to raise our families, build/share love and loyalty with friends, and grow from these experiences.

I don’t know if anybody’s noticed yet, but China is trying to kill and destroy us. In the most Machiavellian of manners. And we have a complicit and conforming leadership.

I’m going to leave this link here for anyone interested in helping fight back by going after those importing via legal judicial actions eg lawsuits against individuals in China and narco-cartels in Mexico.

https://familiesagainstfentanyl.org/

Hello, something is missing in the link. OK..easy to find on Google.

I'm not saying this isn't a huge problem, but I don't think the term "poisoning" is appropriate. Poising implies that the person is surreptitiously given something harmful. Isn't it more accurate to say that people are overdosing on a drug that is sourced from China?

It seems to me that placing the blame entirely on the supply is to absolve the user of any wrong doing. Perhaps this is outdated thinking in today's crazy world, but I feel that the easiest way to prevent oneself from being "poisoned" by China is to not use fentanyl, or any other elicit drug, for that matter.

I remember when AIDS was all the rage back in the 1980's. It was going to kill us all. I actually didn't get that worried about it because I didn't partake in behaviors that increased one's risk of catching the disease. The fentanyl "pandemic" seems like a similar situation.

quote:

Originally posted by David Lee:
Hello, something is missing in the link. OK..easy to find on Google.

Yea, like anything related to China...

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
The leading, #1 cause of death in men in the USA, ages 18-45 is fentanyl. It is at 3X historical opioid overdoses in last two years in white men. 5X in black men. These are not overdoses. This is the poisoning of American men.

It destroys our most important purpose here on earth; to raise our families, build/share love and loyalty with friends, and grow from these experiences.

I don’t know if anybody’s noticed yet, but China is trying to kill and destroy us. In the most Machiavellian of manners. And we have a complicit and conforming leadership.

I’m going to leave this link here for anyone interested in helping fight back by going after those importing via legal judicial actions eg lawsuits against individuals in China and narco-cartels in Mexico.

https://familiesagainstfentanyl.org/

I put forth the same idea here three or four years ago and was roundly denounced as this could never happen.

So it’s almost like a reverse opium war?

quote:

I'm not saying this isn't a huge problem, but I don't think the them "poisoning" is appropriate. Poising implies that the person is surreptitiously given something harmful. Isn't it more accurate to say that people are overdosing on a drug that is sourced from China?

In this instance, I agree with you. However, in the past, I recall incidents where the widely used drug Heparin was found to be tainted and was implicated in the deaths of almost 100 Americans. There was also the case of the drywall used in new construction which was found to be off-gassing toxic fumes and had to be torn out and scrapped.

Of course China denies that these cases were deliberate.

Headline should read:

Criminals in China and Mexico are exploiting our drug addicts. Very few of these people have died without first voluntarily ingesting an illicit substance. I am not saying they deserve to die or that we should not try to stop what is happening but this is an issue that can be completely avoided with better personal choices.

How much influence do you think we really have over China?

You don't say?

OK so it begins… It’s just drug addicts… Let them all die.

Do you care not one wit for your sons and daughters? Or the people they love? What about their children? It also happens to old people.

What about our veterans who risked all?

I know plenty of 65-year-olds and older who have passed from this shit.

I have a son who is 26 years old who has lost over 20 friends/associates in last 10 yrs. Do you think that’s normal?

This this is not necessarily about addiction; that’s a whole Nother discussion that I’m happy to have with intellectually honest folks.

Do people not understand that fentanyl has supplanted all other opium-based business for the Cartels, and is being spread/used in non-opioid medicines ie benzodiazepines, amphetamines, anything else people are searching for …

This is how they die. If you don’t care, then this thread probably isn’t for you.

Chemical warfare (drugs) and biological warfare (Covid) have both been used to disrupt American society.

Impose tariffs on Chinese goods. That will send a message and encourage the development of American manufacturing.

China is “poisonong” not this country but in many ways the entire planet; illicit laboratory poisons are just the top of the iceberg. They poison the world’s economy, turn world leaders for simple money, they usurp areas of international ownership for military purposes. Then there is Covid, and their massive profiting they enjoyed from something they let loose on the people of every country. The Chinese government is the enemy of the entire globe.

If I had a kid who got addicted to heroin (which is how fentanyl is sold), if he didn't quickly act to clean him/herself up and beat the addiction, I'd blame them for their own actions and write them off.

I'm deep in my 50s now. I can't remember any time in my life, going back to childhood, when I didn't know heroin was a dangerous, addicting drug. Those who choose to play with it take their chances. If they screw up their own lives, it's on them.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
OK so it begins… It’s just drug addicts… Let them all die.

Do you care not one wit for your sons and daughters? Or the people they love? What about their children? It also happens to old people.

What about our veterans who risked all?

I know plenty of 65-year-olds and older who have passed from this shit.

I have a son who is 26 years old who has lost over 20 friends/associates in last 10 yrs. Do you think that’s normal?

This this is not necessarily about addiction; that’s a whole Nother discussion that I’m happy to have with intellectually honest folks.

Do people not understand that fentanyl has supplanted all other opium-based business for the Cartels, and is being spread/used in non-opioid medicines ie benzodiazepines, amphetamines, anything else people are searching for …

This is how they die. If you don’t care, then this thread probably isn’t for you.

Sure is easy to speculate and believe in your own power to make things happen the way you want. GL

Again fentanyl is being put in everything… What do you people not understand. It is not just a heroin substitute. Jesus.

No wonder we’re losing this war.

When you look at the issue and specifically how many people got addicted to begin with you might realize it’s not just idiot drug abuse enthusiasts.

For many people chronic pain or a severe injury can be a gateway to this hell.

Yes it is a problem. And I do believe greed, a trail of deceit along with foreign influence have created this problem. It isn’t just poor choices at the root of this.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
When you look at the issue and specifically how many people got addicted to begin with you might realize it’s not just idiot drug abuse enthusiasts.

For many people chronic pain or a severe injury can be a gateway to this hell.

Indeed … just look at .mil handing this shit out to shut people up who hurt.

Don’t think old folks take fuck-tons of this shit?

Wake up folks and let’s do better.

Many of the people I know that have had issues with heroin and fentanyl got started on heavy duty pain meds after accidents and/or surgeries. These are not homeless people - they are working professionals and people we see every day in our communities. This does not excuse their behavior or addiction - but it brings to light the fact that this is not just a disease of the poor/downtrodden.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
This is how they die. If you don’t care, then this thread probably isn’t for you.

I don't think anybody has said this. I do find it curious that you believe that cutting of the supply from China or the Cartels through civil jurisprudence, however impractical that idea is, will solve this problem. Let's say that you can do this (which is not possible). Do you seriously believe that simply eliminating China as a source will cause the criminals to pack up and quit? No, they would simply move elsewhere, like Vietnam.

I really dislike making gun control analogies. This example, however, is simply too compelling. I do not believe that the solution to violence involving firearms is solved by eliminating the supply of firearms. Likewise, controlling the source of fentanyl will not eliminate its availability. Now, me thinking this way certainly doesn't mean I don't care about all the people who are affected by this problem, but I'm not going to be shamed with an emotional argument about it. We've tried interdiction solutions for forty years now, at the cost of trillions of dollars and a significant rollback of everybody's personal freedoms, but they don't work. This discussion alone shows that. Are we to now believe that suing for damages is the solution?

Perhaps it is time to look at the demand side of this problem. If that requires the user to accept some of the responsibility, then so be it, but that doesn't make me heartless. I'm just looking for a solution that will actually help. Treating the demand side of this as 100% "victims" is inaccurate and counterproductive. In fact, doesn't rehab begin with recognizing you have a problem?

Fentanyl is no more a China problem than guns are a Mexico problem. Ultimately, fentanyl is an inanimate object that only becomes a problem when it is acted upon by a human being making a decision to do so. Sometimes that human begins using opioids for a legitimate reason under a physician's care, and that should be addressed. I have noticed that the medical community is waking up to the dangers of opioids. Doctors don't give them out like they used to. For the record, I've had doctors give me enough Percocet to make me an addict, but I refused to take all that were given. I took two of the twenty and then destroyed the rest. That was me taking personal responsibility.

If you think for a second that I haven't had this touch my family, you'd be wrong.

Actually, I’d argue we can separate behavior and addiction.

Behavior needs to be dealt with, as does addiction - but they are different things.

There’s an old saying about what happens when you dry-up an old drunken Horse thief? You get a sober horse thief.

You can absolutely hold someone accountable for their behaviors while using. I.e. they lose their house for not making the mortgage, they lose their job for not showing up, they lose their wife for being crappy and mean… Life hands out consequences especially to drunks and addicts.

However addiction is a freaking disease classified by the AMA in 1955. We can move on. There are clear neurotransmitter metaboliical dysfunctions in different people re: various substances which expresses itself as addiction.

Not what this thread is about. If anyone’s interested I’ll gladly send you a easy to read book on this topic for free.

This thread is about the deliberate poisoning of Americans by Red Fucking China. As if two long years going on 3 of Covid-19 wasn’t enough.

Pick a damn side.