Well I guess I'm not ready to declare opioids a WMD. That's just silly.

If you want to discuss real solutions, then I'm all in. I'm not, however, ready to declare that China is using WMDs against the U.S., especially since our official policy is to retaliate in kind, even with a possible nuclear response.

Is there evidence that this is the official policy of the PRC, or is this simply a criminal element that the PRC allows to operate in their territory?

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Well I guess I'm not ready to declare opioids a WMD. That's just silly.

If you want to discuss real solutions, then I'm all in. I'm not, however, ready to declare that China is using WMDs against the U.S., especially since our official policy is to retaliate in kind, even with a possible nuclear response.

Is there evidence that this is the official policy of the PRC, or is this simply a criminal element that the PRC allows to operate in their territory?

First, what do you think would happen if they sold that shit in China? Instant lead pill as medicine. Just like wuflu.

2nd, I gave you the link - the rest is up to you.

When you have demand, someone will enter to supply.
The only question is the price.

Part of the puzzle is here. They are not Chinese.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/...oid-deal-2022-01-19/

OP, you seem to suggest that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids because “China”. Seemingly suggesting some state sponsored aspect with a political agenda. I would counter this to say that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids for simple economic reasons. It’s stronger, cheaper and easier to source, its proliferation is being driven by the cartels and their profit motives.

Does someone in China profit, sure. Members of the CCP, highly likely. Do they care that it will kill American, of course not. Did they seek out the cartels and interject fentanyl into the drug trade specifically as a tactic? That would be giving them a tremendous amount of credit for something that is easily explained by the greed of drug cartels.

When actual heroin was the number one opioid killer were you this mad at Afghanistan for producing 90% of it?

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
When you have demand, someone will enter to supply.
The only question is the price.

Traditionally this would be true.

However as pointed out multiple times fentanyl is making its way into products where it’s unexpected.

If you were opioid-naïve, meaning you don’t touch that stuff - it’s a death sentence.

Some kid wanted to try some street Xanax gets OD on fentanyl. That’s never happened before.

Maybe I’ll start posting 30 Something to 50 year old moms and dads of dead 12 and 14-year-olds so you can see with thine own eyes.

This is not overdosing. This is poisoning. There’s a big difference. Hence this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
OP, you seem to suggest that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids because “China”. Seemingly suggesting some state sponsored aspect with a political agenda. I would counter this to say that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids for simple economic reasons. It’s stronger, cheaper and easier to source, its proliferation is being driven by the cartels and their profit motives.

Does someone in China profit, sure. Members of the CCP, highly likely. Do they care that it will kill American, of course not. Did they seek out the cartels and interject fentanyl into the drug trade specifically as a tactic? That would be giving them a tremendous amount of credit for something that is easily explained by the greed of drug cartels.

When actual heroin was the number one opioid killer were you this mad at Afghanistan for producing 90% of it?

No, I blame Langley et al for helping use that shit around the world as currency and manipulating governments. Ever wonder who was paying the Tali for opium?

Mexican cartels have changed their operations 100% to focus on fentanyl from delivered raw chemicals out of China. These guys fall over dead all the time down in Mexico. It’s a very different game right now.

The potency, the amounts are staggering. We’ve never had enough heroin in the country at one time to kill everyone twice over.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
When you have demand, someone will enter to supply.
The only question is the price.

Traditionally this would be true.

However as pointed out multiple times fentanyl is making its way into products where it’s unexpected.

If you were opioid-naïve, meaning you don’t touch that stuff - it’s a death sentence.

Some kid wanted to try some street Xanax gets OD on fentanyl. That’s never happened before.

Maybe I’ll start posting 30 Something to 50 year old moms and dads of dead 12 and 14-year-olds so you can see with thine own eyes.

This is not overdosing. This is poisoning. There’s a big difference. Hence this thread.

All of these examples you keep using in your emotional appeals are again explained by the greed of drug dealers, not state sponsored attacks. Google Aaron Shamo, he set up a pill press in his basement in Utah and made fake pills from Fentanyl that killed dozens. He ordered the Fentanyl online, no one came to his door and recruited him into a commie plot.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Well I guess I'm not ready to declare opioids a WMD. That's just silly.

If you want to discuss real solutions, then I'm all in. I'm not, however, ready to declare that China is using WMDs against the U.S., especially since our official policy is to retaliate in kind, even with a possible nuclear response.

Is there evidence that this is the official policy of the PRC, or is this simply a criminal element that the PRC allows to operate in their territory?

If you stack up all the things the CCP has blessed us with (Covid, etc), a death penalty for CCP leaders is probably too kind. Then again it seems many from our own shores have been complicit in the Covid mess. Probably plenty here who have been complicit in our drug problems too. I believe that we cannot justify using WMDs against the Chinese even if it seems some of them might deserve it. It sure seems like we need to better recognize and defend against the many-pronged threat that they (the CCP, not necessarily the Chinese people) pose though.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
2nd, I gave you the link - the rest is up to you.

Yes, the link that declares fentanyl is a WMD.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
OP, you seem to suggest that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids because “China”. Seemingly suggesting some state sponsored aspect with a political agenda. I would counter this to say that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids for simple economic reasons. It’s stronger, cheaper and easier to source, its proliferation is being driven by the cartels and their profit motives.

Does someone in China profit, sure. Members of the CCP, highly likely. Do they care that it will kill American, of course not. Did they seek out the cartels and interject fentanyl into the drug trade specifically as a tactic? That would be giving them a tremendous amount of credit for something that is easily explained by the greed of drug cartels.

When actual heroin was the number one opioid killer were you this mad at Afghanistan for producing 90% of it?

No, I blame Langley et al for helping use that shit around the world as currency and manipulating governments. Ever wonder who was paying the Tali for opium?

Mexican cartels have changed their operations 100% to focus on fentanyl from delivered raw chemicals out of China. These guys fall over dead all the time down in Mexico. It’s a very different game right now.

The potency, the amounts are staggering. We’ve never had enough heroin in the country at one time to kill everyone twice over.

Yes, they have changed their operations to fentanyl because they make more money…plain and simple.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
OP, you seem to suggest that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids because “China”. Seemingly suggesting some state sponsored aspect with a political agenda. I would counter this to say that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids for simple economic reasons. It’s stronger, cheaper and easier to source, its proliferation is being driven by the cartels and their profit motives.

Does someone in China profit, sure. Members of the CCP, highly likely. Do they care that it will kill American, of course not. Did they seek out the cartels and interject fentanyl into the drug trade specifically as a tactic? That would be giving them a tremendous amount of credit for something that is easily explained by the greed of drug cartels.

When actual heroin was the number one opioid killer were you this mad at Afghanistan for producing 90% of it?

No, I blame Langley et al for helping use that shit around the world as currency and manipulating governments. Ever wonder who was paying the Tali for opium?

Mexican cartels have changed their operations 100% to focus on fentanyl from delivered raw chemicals out of China. These guys fall over dead all the time down in Mexico. It’s a very different game right now.

The potency, the amounts are staggering. We’ve never had enough heroin in the country at one time to kill everyone twice over.

Yes, they have changed their operations to fentanyl because they make more money…plain and simple.

Are you watching the Olympics? Got a big red cup of red Kool-Aid in your hand huh?

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
When you look at the issue and specifically how many people got addicted to begin with you might realize it’s not just idiot drug abuse enthusiasts.

For many people chronic pain or a severe injury can be a gateway to this hell.

Indeed … just look at .mil handing this shit out to shut people up who hurt.

Don’t think old folks take fuck-tons of this shit?

Wake up folks and let’s do better.

I don't know where to exactly start, so I'll start here.
It's obvious that someone in your family is an addict.
Sorry about that...
I know you still love them, as so you should.
However, at the end of the day, it's THEIR addiction.

27 years as a Chicago Cop, the majority in the Ghetto, and dealing with Gangs and Narcotics. The only thing that really isn't big here is Meth.
I was in the Narcotics Unit when the first fentanyl laced heroin came out in the Dearborn Homes housing project.

I did some time active and reserve in the .mil side of the house, my brother is still in after 26ish years. I also did the contracting thing for a while. So I have a shit-ton of friends that have been through the .mil medical side.

I'm also rather familiar with pain meds and elderly people. I also have a lot of friends that are Dr's and nurses.

That being said-

Ok, let's start the war with China!
Let's stop that evil fentanyl from coming in to the US, and Mexico!
YAAAYYYY! We're fucking heros!

But we didn't stop the Heroin coming in. Hmmm....
So I guess people are still going to be addicted to heroin.
The drug de-jour back in the 80's and 90's was what?
If you told Alex "what was Cocaine?" You'd be correct. People OD'd from that. Then someone decided that mixing baking powder with that shit was a great idea!
How many thousands of people died from that shit in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's? And include the numbers from homicides from the "Crack Wars"?

Has anything stopped?

What about a hundred years ago? The "Roaring 20's?" Hell, we let women vote, and the first thing they did was outlaw alcohol! Yet people were still alcoholics while Alcohol was illegal.
What were the consequences of all the "bathtub gin" and the poorly made alcohol back then?

Anything stop since then?

Nope.... America is still the NUMBER ONE (that's the top of the list) importer of illegal narcotics in the world.

Until you figure out how to solve America's problems with addiction, nothing is going to stop.

Since you've pegged China as the number one exporter of Fentanyl, and you're correct there, who's the major exporter of Heroin?
Because you just can't go after the Fentanyl, you have to go after the Heroin as well...


And if you think China really gives a flying fuck or is afraid in any manner, you're terribly wrong! And if we start fucking with China or the Fentanyl trade, watch and see the amazing shit the Mexican Cartels are going to pull off!

(^^^ that one should scare the shit out of you!)

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
OP, you seem to suggest that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids because “China”. Seemingly suggesting some state sponsored aspect with a political agenda. I would counter this to say that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids for simple economic reasons. It’s stronger, cheaper and easier to source, its proliferation is being driven by the cartels and their profit motives.

Does someone in China profit, sure. Members of the CCP, highly likely. Do they care that it will kill American, of course not. Did they seek out the cartels and interject fentanyl into the drug trade specifically as a tactic? That would be giving them a tremendous amount of credit for something that is easily explained by the greed of drug cartels.

When actual heroin was the number one opioid killer were you this mad at Afghanistan for producing 90% of it?

No, I blame Langley et al for helping use that shit around the world as currency and manipulating governments. Ever wonder who was paying the Tali for opium?

Mexican cartels have changed their operations 100% to focus on fentanyl from delivered raw chemicals out of China. These guys fall over dead all the time down in Mexico. It’s a very different game right now.

The potency, the amounts are staggering. We’ve never had enough heroin in the country at one time to kill everyone twice over.

Yes, they have changed their operations to fentanyl because they make more money…plain and simple.

Are you watching the Olympics? Got a big red cup of red Kool-Aid in your hand huh?

No, nice try though….haven’t watched a second of it. I am out though, I will leave you to your imaginary world wars, is this WWV or WWVI, I have lost count

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
OP, you seem to suggest that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids because “China”. Seemingly suggesting some state sponsored aspect with a political agenda. I would counter this to say that fentanyl has supplanted all other opioids for simple economic reasons. It’s stronger, cheaper and easier to source, its proliferation is being driven by the cartels and their profit motives.

Does someone in China profit, sure. Members of the CCP, highly likely. Do they care that it will kill American, of course not. Did they seek out the cartels and interject fentanyl into the drug trade specifically as a tactic? That would be giving them a tremendous amount of credit for something that is easily explained by the greed of drug cartels.

When actual heroin was the number one opioid killer were you this mad at Afghanistan for producing 90% of it?

No, I blame Langley et al for helping use that shit around the world as currency and manipulating governments. Ever wonder who was paying the Tali for opium?

Mexican cartels have changed their operations 100% to focus on fentanyl from delivered raw chemicals out of China. These guys fall over dead all the time down in Mexico. It’s a very different game right now.

The potency, the amounts are staggering. We’ve never had enough heroin in the country at one time to kill everyone twice over.

Yes, they have changed their operations to fentanyl because they make more money…plain and simple.

Are you watching the Olympics? Got a big red cup of red Kool-Aid in your hand huh?

No, nice try though….haven’t watched a second of it. I am out though, I will leave you to your imaginary world wars, is this WWV or WWVI, I have lost count

Worth a shot… You got all the other talking points down.

If you wanted to destroy a nation what would you do to play the long game?


Would you seek to :

-Destroy their ability to manufacture
-Destroy their sense of pride
-Destroy their history
-Buy any and every politician you can and use your leverage
-Make it incredibly difficult for those who want to turn an idea they have into a working prototype without your help/manufacturing
-Steal ideas and patents from everyone
-Know your enemy as well as you know yourself
-Get them addicted to substances that deteriorate cognitive abilities
-Use the nations history to divide its people


Nah, I don’t really see China doing any of this stuff.

^ Classic Communist Subversion, not just from China from our bought and paid for Gov't.

I recall not long ago a shipment of Fentanyl was seized that was large enough to kill every person in the US 4 times over. Make of that what you will but it was coming from China. That's not the legal Fentanyl a doctor prescribes, it's what's on the street. Other than that the Cartels bring it in, which I've pondered why that is being allowed to happen. No doubt in my mind we could shut that off the second we decided to.

I've heard too that addicts like the stuff that someone OD'd on. They know it's potent. So it's hard to feel sorry for them, however it does seem like an attack made to weaken us, especially given the timing.

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:

I've heard too that addicts like the stuff that someone OD'd on. They know it's potent. So it's hard to feel sorry for them, however it does seem like an attack made to weaken us, especially given the timing.

The 1970s called, and they want their old urban myths back.

Going after "Supply" is like playing "Whack-a-mole".
To make any real difference, you need to work on the "Demand" side" but that is much more difficult.
Going after "Supply" will be about as successful as Prohibition, Imo...

Stickman 428 and Slippery Pete both have it exactly right. China is happy to turn a blind eye to the fentanyl drug trade. Their view is that the United States is in decline, and they expect to replace the US as the only world super power. The sooner that happens, the better.

Kind of like death by a thousand pin pricks. The way they see it, every homeless drug addicted American living in a tent is one less American who isn't serving in the military, isn't working and producing goods and services, and is in fact hastening the decline and fall of the United States. So they won't make any effort to stop this. Can't recall the article that I read, but it was the author's view that the Chinese do see the drug trade as a small but useful tool in their arsenal of things they use to undermine the United States.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Don’t think old folks take fuck-tons of this shit?

Wake up folks and let’s do better.

No, I don't think old folks take fuck-tons of this shit, generally speaking. Some do I'm sure but it's not all that widespread.

I'm speaking as an older person who shoots with two groups of older shooters twice a week and socializes with older people on a daily basis.

I don't know anyone who's taking pain killers on a regular basis. Some have after dental surgery or other forms of surgery for brief periods, but nothing on a regular basis.

And the ages I'm speaking of go from around 65 to 83 or so.