No, but they probably were prescribed properly, decided they liked the high, kept using it and got hooked. Even going back a decade or more, how many people didn't know pain pills are addictive?

quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Many of the people I know that have had issues with heroin and fentanyl got started on heavy duty pain meds after accidents and/or surgeries. These are not homeless people - they are working professionals and people we see every day in our communities. This does not excuse their behavior or addiction - but it brings to light the fact that this is not just a disease of the poor/downtrodden.

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Don’t think old folks take fuck-tons of this shit?

Wake up folks and let’s do better.

No, I don't think old folks take fuck-tons of this shit, generally speaking. Some do I'm sure but it's not all that widespread.

I'm speaking as an older person who shoots with two groups of older shooters twice a week and socializes with older people on a daily basis.

I don't know anyone who's taking pain killers on a regular basis. Some have after dental surgery or other forms of surgery for brief periods, but nothing on a regular basis.

And the ages I'm speaking of go from around 65 to 83 or so.

Go talk to any doctor in a spine clinic. Lots of actual overdoses occurred in this older age group (typically because of going on and off the drugs). Complicated topic, but just because your sample of old people doesn’t match reality, doesn’t change the facts.

I have a good friend who is a physician who wrote a book on this topic and has a practice for 30+ years seeing all kinds of people, come and go, live and die.

IMPORTANT: I’m not proselytizing that I have the answers. This thread really isn’t about addiction.

But if you can’t recognize China is a problem on this issue, then again I’ll say this probably isn’t a thread for you.

Follow the money.

It is just drug dealers selling to addicts.

If we were buying green lolly pops and they could make a profit legal or illegal they would be selling what we are buying.

If it leave a bunch of deal Americans they are indifferent.

quote:

Originally posted by sig2392:
Follow the money.

It is just drug dealers selling to addicts.

If we were buying green lolly pops and they could make a profit legal or illegal they would be selling what we are buying.

If it leave a bunch of deal Americans they are indifferent.

Ok, Jerry McGuire.

It has been reported that there are more deaths due to drug overdose. That may or may not be true, depending on who or what you choose to believe, but blaming the drug or the country the drug comes from for the overdose is wrong. A drug, much like a gun, or a hammer, is a tool. If that tool is used in an inappropriate manner the unsatisfactory results are the responsibility of the person using the tool.

The argument that addiction is a disease, and therefore the addict is not responsible for the damage they do is wrong. If a drunk driver kills a pedestrian do we put Mexico on trial because they supplied the Corona? That would be as silly as blaming China for these overdoses. The blame for the increase in the overdoses lies at the feet of those who decide to start or continue using dangerous drugs. Note that I do not say illegal, because in many states drugs have been decriminalized or even legalized. The social stigma that used to go with hard drug use has been mostly removed, thus encouraging more people to try them. In the city I work in you can do heroin, or even distribute it as long as you stay under a certain amount on your person on the curb in front of a quicky mart and the police will turn a blind eye. But if a 19 year old tries to buy a 6 pack of beer on their way home from work they will come haul that kid off to jail. Sends a powerful message to our youth, underage drinking is bad, but drug use is A OK.

I see hard drug use as a dangerous antisocial behavior. I also see the overuse of the more accepted drugs to be just as bad. But that does not mean that I think they should be illegal. I feel all drugs should be legal, and even available to those that want them, even the dangerous drugs. You want to buy heroine, then you should be able to go to the drug store and buy it, and it should be cheap, and not taxed more than anything else, this is America, home of the free, land of the brave, If you want to poison yourself then that should be your right, but it is also the right of the rest of society to be revulsed by that anti social behavior. We should look down on those who do hard drugs, just like we do drunk drivers, there should be repercussions for the choices people make, even if they are addicted.

Now someone will say that if I had an addict in my family I would change my tune. So I will head that off. My Mother is an addict, and I think my Father is as well, I have not had contact with him for a long time so there is no way for me to be certain. I have a personality that is prone to addiction, and I see it in one of my biological children as well as both of my non biological children. I do not want my kids to die from addiction any more than I want anyones kids to die needlessly, but blaming the drug, or the country the drug comes from, will not keep anyones kids safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Stlhead:
The argument that addiction is a disease, and therefore the addict is not responsible for the damage they do is wrong.

I don’t know where you heard this… Or where you think you heard this… But I’ve never heard of it in 40 years around recovery. Never.

That is not the disease theory of addiction whatsoever.

Sounds like a self-serving thought/notion to justify your indifference and apathy. Maybe a self-defense mechanism from the way your parents were. Obviously your parents caused chaos; evident in your post.

You should understand behavior is never excused. Not in my world.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:

I've heard too that addicts like the stuff that someone OD'd on. They know it's potent. So it's hard to feel sorry for them, however it does seem like an attack made to weaken us, especially given the timing.

The 1970s called, and they want their old urban myths back.

SIGNified, the knock at your door is the “real world” showing up. Sorry it’s late to whatever po-dunk ass-backwards town “Row 2-F” is in.
Slippery Pete is 110% right!
And I’ve seen it up close and personal more times, I’ve done the supplemental reports on more “death investigations” more times than I’d ever want to again.

Your arguments become more valid if you have actual facts backing them up then just quippy half-truth comebacks.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by Slippery Pete:

I've heard too that addicts like the stuff that someone OD'd on. They know it's potent. So it's hard to feel sorry for them, however it does seem like an attack made to weaken us, especially given the timing.

The 1970s called, and they want their old urban myths back.

SIGNified, the knock at your door is the “real world” showing up. Sorry it’s late to whatever po-dunk ass-backwards town “Row 2-F” is in.
Slippery Pete is 110% right!
And I’ve seen it up close and personal more times, I’ve done the supplemental reports on more “death investigations” more times than I’d ever want to again.

Your arguments become more valid if you have actual facts backing them up then just quippy half-truth comebacks.

I’ve seen both sides.


I grew up in Chicago in the 70s with a federal DEA agent as a mentor. I’ve also met more addicts than most, close to them for ~40 yrs.

If you think people dying of fentanyl is just dopers wanting strong shit, well … C’est la vie.

This thread argues for the point that China is active in poisoning US citizens beyond meeting the simple demand of addicts. That is why fentanyl is in many illicit non-opioid drugs at this point.

An added point: there was a time when society kept illegal drugs in check by... disapproving of illegal drugs. Society at virtually all levels said it was shameful, it was wrong. That had more impact than all of the arrests by the police ever.

We didn't just try to cut off the supply (which obviously doesn't work) or arrest the pushers. Society collectively looked down on being a pusher, looked down on being a user. People avoided behavior that earned them disapproval.

Then something happened. At some point it became okay to extoll drugs in songs, on TV shows, in movies. No one is willing to say it is "wrong" anymore. We were told, "Don't be judgmental." No one is ostracized. No one is even criticized. In some circles, it is the norm. No one cares, even though it is obviously harmful to the individual and everyone connected with that person.

So anyone who wants to check it out and give it a try just does so. There is nothing to inhibit them, except the small chance they might get caught by the police, who frequently look the other way too. There is no social cost to using drugs, including drugs that have fentanyl in them, or drugs that make you run around naked and stupid, or drugs that mess up your life, or drugs that shorten your life either.

So we are very libertarian now. Let people do what they want to do. Do the rest of us care? Apparently not.

Getting mad at China? They certainly have earned it, for economic depredations, for COVID-19, for selling inferior products, for harvesting organs from prisoners, for putting Uyghurs in concentration camps, for what they do to their own people and what they are going to do to us in the future. But if we, collectively, don't have the backbone or enough sense of morality to condemn bad behavior among our own children and friends and co-workers -- then getting mad at the Chinese isn't going to be the answer either.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPD SIG:


If you think people dying of fentanyl is just dopers wanting strong shit, well … C’est la vie.

Again, answer the knock at the door… it’s TODAYS reality tapping on it!

Deny it all you want, but I’m telling you what’s happening on the streets of Chicago TODAY, and for quite some time now!

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CPD SIG:


If you think people dying of fentanyl is just dopers wanting strong shit, well … C’est la vie.

Again, answer the knock at the door… it’s TODAYS reality tapping on it!

Deny it all you want, but I’m telling you what’s happening on the streets of Chicago TODAY, and for quite some time now!

Keep doing what you do… I’m sure it’s working. You make the news every night.

I left Chicago and crook county decades ago.

Lou’s pizza is still good though.


This thread argues for the point that China is active in poisoning US citizens beyond meeting the simple demand of addicts. That is why fentanyl is in many illicit non-opioid drugs at this point.

And to show how -- at least in terms of harmful drugs -- acquiescence becomes acceptance and eventually approval and encouragement:

Biden Admin To Fund Crack Pipe Distribution To Advance ‘Racial Equity’

See: https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-admin-to-fund-crack-pipe-distribution-to-advance-racial-equity/

quote:

Originally posted by RoverSig:
And to show how -- at least in terms of drugs -- acquiescence becomes acceptance and eventually becomes approval:

Biden Admin To Fund Crack Pipe Distribution To Advance ‘Racial Equity’

See: https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-admin-to-fund-crack-pipe-distribution-to-advance-racial-equity/

Looks like a federal scheme just to help his son get free crack pipes in da hizzy …

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by RoverSig:
And to show how -- at least in terms of drugs -- acquiescence becomes acceptance and eventually becomes approval:

Biden Admin To Fund Crack Pipe Distribution To Advance ‘Racial Equity’

See: https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-admin-to-fund-crack-pipe-distribution-to-advance-racial-equity/

Looks like a federal scheme just to help his son get free crack pipes in da hizzy …

I know. I guess it is an example of how elites use harmful drugs too and no one really cares.

I think the situation with fentanyl is terrible but I don't think there is any will, at any level, to do much about it.

Is there any evidence that China is doing what you say as a matter of state policy? Simply repeating it isn't evidence, nor is evidence of the drug's effects here proof of a deliberate foreign policy.

Occam's Razor would suggest it is simply a more potent drug, which makes illegal importation easier if a drug is more compact. If China is responsible today for Fendanyl deaths, who was responsible for the crack "epidemic" of the 1980s, and why did crack supplant powdered cocaine with many users?

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Is there any evidence that China is doing what you say as a matter of state policy? Simply repeating it repeatedly isn't evidence, nor is evidence of the drug's effects here evidence of a deliberate foreign policy.

Occam's Razor would suggest it is simply a more potent drug, which makes illegal importation easier if a drug is more compact. If China is responsible today for Fendanyl deaths, who was responsible for the crack "epidemic" of the 1980s, and why did crack supplant powdered cocaine with many users?

Ha ha ha … I forgot China’s a free market economy.


Despite the fact that the government/CCP needs to be in 1/2 of all your business.


Come on man!

If a country can cover up a leak from a weapon lab that changed the world it’s probably not hard to keep the drug biz on the down low.

Why wouldn’t they be doing it? If I were in the CCP I’d be flooding America with opiates.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
So it’s almost like a reverse opium war?

It appears to be so.

I started my LEO career just as the crack cocaine boom became a thing. Cocaine was too expensive but with crack the masses could join the party. Lots and lots of gang wars were fought over their sales territories borders. Then meth hit and the ride was even harder. So many lives and families destroyed.
Heroin made it's comeback and let's not forget the synthetic marijuana boom brought to you from China as well. Now fentanyl is king. It's OD city out there now.
Most every call that I make is drug related one way or another.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
If a country can cover up a leak from a weapon lab that changed the world it’s probably not hard to keep the drug biz on the down low.

Why wouldn’t they be doing it? If I were in the CCP I’d be flooding America with opiates.

Exactly. Chinese communists don’t care, it’s their job to F us. Ends justifies the means.

Does anyone think that we’re just in “competition“ with China? That’s what Joe Biden says.

I’d suggest that we’re actively at war with the fuckers. But because the Bidens are so in bed with the Chi-comms, they won’t lift a finger to protect Americans.

In fact, the Harris/Biden administration have done nothing to help Americans in any aspect. It’s been downhill with every decision. I didn’t think they could get it this bad, but here we are…