quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
This is how its done. This is one of the very few examples I can think of that shows a female LEO handle a gunfight like a true badass.

That looked like the Chicago way. Sean Connery would have approved (or at least his character in The Untouchables would have.

I dunno if she ran dry at fifteen or just stopped shooting. A part of me thinks an immediate reload might have been in order, but what the heck, at that point the guy was likely a thin red paste anyway. Yo pienso que el no va a hacer mas problemas.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Jesus, Mary and Joseph

Freeze and scream. Just lovely



You are in the wrong line of work, ma'am. I don't care how many stripes you have, You have no business being anywhere in the vicinity of a crazy man with a butcher knife. Did you think that taser was magically infallible?

I was wondering when this was going to come up...

Begrudgingly, I'll put some information out there. My connection-
This was in my District, those officers and the Sgt I know personally, they work on midnights. I talk to them regularly. I went through Sgt School with her. I was also there minutes after the shooting occurred, and running the crime scene.
EARLIER THAT DAY, the Sgt found out that a lawsuit that she was a defendant on from a prior shooting that involved a man with a knife had just been settled.

Ask away, but-

I'll start with this, and this is from years of experience in fucked up places all over the world, and in my hometown:
Just because you own or carry a gun, doesn't make you a gunfighter.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
But for me, I'll take a CPDSIG or a JSBCody anyday.

You may wanna re-think that one!
Take JSB, JLJones, Klusk, KevinCW (hopefully WITH pants...) Edmond... Anyone but that CPDSIG character!

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:

quote:

You are in the wrong line of work, ma'am. I don't care how many stripes you have, You have no business being anywhere in the vicinity of a crazy man with a butcher knife. Did you think that taser was magically infallible?

You left out that he had previously just stabbed someone else.

Yet they still rioted over this.

He cut that shit out of someone's hand/arm a few blocks away, which led to the stop you see on camera.
And THANKFULLY they didn't riot over this one, or the shooting about a week prior.

CPD SIG, when I watched that video, I immediately thought both officers did not want to do the Laquan McDonald incident where the officer was charged and convicted for each round he fired (hey has that happened since then, has Crimesha charged anyone else like that?).

As for the female officer's actions I blame the department and culture there. A few months back a Chicago copper who trains in martial arts on his own time got in trouble for doing a perfect judo style toss and take down on a suspect who was combative. There was even talk among the Police Executives (pencil pushers and housecats whose time on patrol or streets can usually be measured in months, weeks or even hours....I am not kidding ) everywhere that Krav Maga, BJJ, MMA techniques and off duty training should be banned (they would really freak out if they saw my KALI class and all the knife work we do in there). They wanted ONLY department trained techniques to be used ALL the time. Of course they were confronted by the lack of on duty training and along with total ineffective and outdated systems like PPCT, they immediately backed off (my Chief told me about one such meeting he attended in the St. Louis area and how it was being brought up in other major departments....my Chief was totally against it, he is trying to get several officers trained in Gracie Survival Tactics).

As a TASER Instructor, I have recently read several articles concerning the the X26P where TASER dropped the voltage down (compared to X26 as they were in the midst of a bunch of lawsuits)and departments have had much lower success rate. TASER wants the measure of successful deployment being if the TASER is shown and suspect complies while departments are using the if TASER is shot-darts deployed as whether or not it was successful. Most big departments were around 50 to 60% success rate. The TASER in this case dropped him but it did not control him and that may have been due to the lower voltage. Yes, this video will be part of my annual TASER training for my department: importance of communication, having lethal cover, and having a plan if shit don't work. Trying to run backwards while suspect chases you down is not a plan that is going to work.

quote:

Originally posted by jsbcody:
There was even talk among the Police Executives (pencil pushers and housecats whose time on patrol or streets can usually be measured in months, weeks or even hours....I am not kidding ) everywhere that Krav Maga, BJJ, MMA techniques and off duty training should be banned (they would really freak out if they saw my KALI class and all the knife work we do in there). They wanted ONLY department trained techniques to be used ALL the time.

What an incredibly short-sighted notion. I've seen many videos on YouTube with Ryron and Rener Gracie training law enforcement in BJJ. The emphasis that I've seen is to subdue without pain compliance.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
Ask away, but-

I'll start with this, and this is from years of experience in fucked up places all over the world, and in my hometown:
Just because you own or carry a gun, doesn't make you a gunfighter.

Did I follow/hear the video correctly? I think I heard her partner (or at least the first officer approaching the perp with her) say that he was pressing the trigger but his gun wouldn’t fire. It seemed a bit like the two initial officers were overwhelmed and a third officer came booking in and lit the perp up solving the problem.

JSBCody-
I'm glad you brought up the Laquan incident.
(And NO, the ASA's office has not yet charged anyone for each round fired.)

Guess what district and what watch that incident happened on? DING, DING, DING! Yup... That one!

So take that incident, then slather on a big heaping of "It's 2020, and I'm a honkey cracker ass cop, and if I shoot a black man, bad shit is going to happen. Even if I'm right and the bad guy is a fucking BAD GUY!"

And it's drilled into your head. Along with de-escalation, "implicit bias" and other liberal bullshit...

About a month prior, a black man was shot by a white cop, AFTER THE BLACK MAN SHOT AT THE WHITE COP... And the city went up again! More riots downtown. The mayor, state's attorney and their minions are looking to crucify the next cop on the sjw altar.

Ask yourself (that's all of you) this very important question:
"Do I want that to be me?"

Yep, the officer who did the excellent judo/bjj hip-toss of the shit-stain that just spit on him got screwed over. The orders came from the mayors office because "it looked bad", yet was 100% justified.

And yes, that rather short-sighted any myopic thought extended to here as well. House mice who have been afraid of the street come up with brilliant ideas that don't work in reality, and can't function in the "grey area".

Slosig-
The Sgt was by herself in a car, the other two are partners in the same car(for this story, they will be referred to as Officer A and Officer B).
Officer A & B pulled up to that park, Sgt pulled up moments after.
The Sgt spotted the bad guy in the bushes, Officer A & B were close by (close as in yards) and to the Sgts left. Kind of in an "L"
You see the Sgt calling the guy over and the whole "Let me see your hands!"...
Bad guy moves toward Officer A (gun drawn), then quickly changed direction and went toward the Sgt (taser drawn).
Sgt tases bad guy, bad guy goes down and pulls out taser probes, gets up and moves toward the Sgt again, and gets tased again.
He was either unfazed, or the taser didn't work.
(Tasers have about a 50% effective rate)
That's when it went from shit, to really bad shit.
Bad guy kept on coming, Sgt tried to back pedal straight, bad guy grabs and stabs with a chefs knife.
Officer A and B engage.
Officer A's gun jams. Officer B, well... You hear the bangs.
Officer A was able to clear a malfunction or two and engage as well.
(I don't know what caused the weapon to malfunction, that will come out later in the investigation, if I find out, I'll let you know as much as I can)
All high center mass hits.

You can hear "tap, tap, tap" on the Sgts video. That was the chefs knife hitting her vest. A few of the stabs went through, and the Sgt had minor superficial wounds.
The bad guy was still holding on to her vest after he was shot multiple times, high center mass.

It sure as fuck ain't like the movies, is it?
Again, the Sgt found out THAT DAY, that her lawsuit from a shooting involving a man with a knife years prior was settled. Think that wasn't on her mind too?

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
What burns me is when I was coming off active duty and applying at LE jobs, I was turned down in favor of turds like her. Couple of deployments, college educated, secret clearance and excellent physical shape. But people like that get hired over me?

Same here, I was in peak physical shape, scored high on tests, top secret security clearance with spotless background. The white Sgt for Texas DPS who administered the test said I'd never get hired the first time through since I wasn't a minority (I was tested separately than the other applicants due to residing out of state so it was me and two other caucazoids testing). My Hispanic sister in law got hired then quit during the academy because it was too hard.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
I hope you made it somewhere but if you have not yet been hired, look at the fed's. Much better gig IMHO.

Buddy got hired few years ago at a smaller department in southwest Florida and he encouraged me to apply. I turned him down as I'm at the point in my life where age and the realization that the shit you guys put up with isn't worth $45k a year. While the satisfaction of public service would've been great, the practicality of wanting a higher quality of life overrode that.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
Same here, I was in peak physical shape, scored high on tests, top secret security clearance with spotless background. The white Sgt for Texas DPS who administered the test said I'd never get hired the first time through since I wasn't a minority (I was tested separately than the other applicants due to residing out of state so it was me and two other caucazoids testing). My Hispanic sister in law got hired then quit during the academy because it was too hard.

What a shame, they spent probably thousands of dollars on her to get to that point. I think people like that should repay what the taxpayers spent.

I'm a minority, just not the right minority that checks boxes for the diversity and inclusion crowd.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
It sure as fuck ain't like the movies, is it?
Again, the Sgt found out THAT DAY, that her lawsuit from a shooting involving a man with a knife years prior was settled. Think that wasn't on her mind too?

Nope, it sure isn’t.

Glad to hear that officer A got his gun up and got in the fight. The video was really chaotic (but probably less so than the actual event) and I wasn’t sure what I was seeing.

Being in a position where things can turn pear shaped at any time and you risk prevailing only to have your bosses throwing you under the bus, the politicians calling for your head, and possibly facing charges from a commie DA doesn’t sound attractive at all.

Policies that threaten to crucify the officer who prevails make everyone less safe, both by possibly causing the officer to hesitate and also by emboldening fools. Sigh...

Thank you for the clarification! I hope all of the officers are okay - physically, mentally/emotionally, and legally.

Thanks for all you do out there. Stay safe!

I retired from LE in 2008, but to the best of my recollection, the taser was designed and marketed for use as a less lethal tool to be used in encounters where the offender wasn't a lethal threat? When someone wants to resist arrest with bodily force (ie: Rodney King), the use of a taser is hazardous enough in terms of it's questionable effectiveness (Yes, I know the particulars of the devices have changed since that debacle.), but closing the distances involved to use one of these on an armed suspect capable of causing GBI or death isn't just insane, it's counter to the fundamentals of this particular tool.

CPD SIG, thanks for the background information. Context makes a big difference sometimes. The plan for the Chicago incident was "please TASER, work this time, I can't go through another shooting and lawsuit."

Again, I blame the department, with touchie feelie crap running anywhere around 50-100 hours of that shit for every 1 hour of Firearms and Defensive Tactics training. We talk about "hey, do it on your off duty time" but just a reminder that Chicago coppers have been working bunches of 12 hours shifts with no days off. That makes it kind of tough to get to the range or martial arts schools when they are also closed or greatly restricted due to Illinois Covid restrictions. Firearms and defensive tactics are quickly perishable skills.

We're back to our regular schedule, and have been for a while. I think things might ramp up around Columbus Day, then the election.

Our department relies on tasers way too much, imo. Not only that, our tactical training level sucks. But it's coming from a department that wants to be all "kinder-gentler" in this new modern age, yet forgets that bad guys aren't really into that shit.
Training is getting slightly better on the tactics side, but as JBSCody points out, there's 50 hours of touchie feelie, and 1-2 of range-tactics. Defensive tactics, fighting... Any of that is non existent after the academy, unless you seek it on your own.


One of the most important things to remember, and I've said it before-
Just because you own or carry a gun, doesn't make you a gunfighter.

Same thing with hitting a BJJ, Krav, Boxing, Karate class or two.

At the end of the day, either you have the mental, emotional, physical and psychological makeup to do physical harm to someone, or you don't. All the training in the world will get you to that last fraction of a second, that last fraction is all on you.

Then there's the "after the fact". That's a pretty big psychological weight on some people. First, second, third shooting (or even a good fight)... It still weighs on your mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Bulldog,

I was part of the massive testing that happened in 2006. I took it late in 2006, the last one that year in November. Passed the written, passed the power, passed the physical, passed both psych tests. Waited and waited. Left for the Army in January 2009 and I want to say a year or so after that, my parents received a letter they forwarded to me requesting FOID, DL, etc. to start background.

I called the detective and he said I could pick up where I left off if I decided to keep going forward with the process. But I had decided by that time I wasn't going to live in Chicago after the Army. Too expensive and too cold. Beautiful city and incredible food, though.

Was it you and I who talked about my days at UIC?

I applied at Orlando PD and Orange County. They make the Chicago politics seem like minor league but that's a story for a different day.

I seem to remember when you were inquiring about CPD back then. I think a few of us responded to a few of your questions, but you didn't seem to have any luck in getting hired. It's too bad, I thought you were a very good candidate.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
We're back to our regular schedule, and have been for a while. I think things might ramp up around Columbus Day, then the election.

Our department relies on tasers way too much, imo. Not only that, our tactical training level sucks. But it's coming from a department that wants to be all "kinder-gentler" in this new modern age, yet forgets that bad guys aren't really into that shit.
Training is getting slightly better on the tactics side, but as JBSCody points out, there's 50 hours of touchie feelie, and 1-2 of range-tactics. Defensive tactics, fighting... Any of that is non existent after the academy, unless you seek it on your own.


One of the most important things to remember, and I've said it before-
Just because you own or carry a gun, doesn't make you a gunfighter.

Same thing with hitting a BJJ, Krav, Boxing, Karate class or two.

At the end of the day, either you have the mental, emotional, physical and psychological makeup to do physical harm to someone, or you don't. All the training in the world will get you to that last fraction of a second, that last fraction is all on you.

Then there's the "after the fact". That's a pretty big psychological weight on some people. First, second, third shooting (or even a good fight)... It still weighs on your mind.

Mindset is a huge factor. I've seen trained people freeze up and do nothing and other times watched a pitbull of an officer, barely 5 foot tall, take on a much larger individual and win. A solid punch to the face and tactics often go out the window. When you're wiping blood from your eyes and cobwebs from your brain, you better make up your mind quickly as to what you're going to do.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
We're back to our regular schedule,

Do you guys work 12 hour shifts?

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
We're back to our regular schedule,

Do you guys work 12 hour shifts?

We were for a while. It's usually 4 on 2 off, 9hr shift. But during the bullshit, it was 12 on, days off cancelled.

12s like that would really suck. We would do those deployed but you didn't care because all you did was work, gym, eat and sleep. But at home, I'm sure the kids want to spend time with you, you have to do household chores, etc. 9 hour shifts aren't too bad at all.

Yeah, 12s can be brutal for the officers, plus also means there's often no overlap between shifts.

For regular shifts, I think 10s are the sweet spot... 2 on 1 off, 2 on 2 off. Plus plenty of shift overlap.