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Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
The gun was already in her face. To try backing up, or even worst to turn and run, would have invited a shot without the ability to defend. All the BG would have to do is pivot his muzzle slightly. To move to toward the front of the vehicle might have been slightly better. If the BG missed with the first couple of rounds, it would have been harder to track the officer around his A-pilar...but remember that his window tapers toward the front, which would give him an initial tracking advantage. It takes more than a "bit" of practice to draw your gun while retreating. Most folks who practice "moving off the X" move laterally. Most training doesn't advocate backing drawing while backing up as you add in the possibility of tripping and falling. Do any agencies still teach shooting between your knees/legs...it is a fairly advanced technique No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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| Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
It looked like he came running up from a couple of cars back, so I'm thinking back-up No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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| Casuistic Thinker and Daoist |
In that situation, the goal isn't to appear professional. The goal is to survive
By which standard are you judging that reaction against? Is there some proscribe penalty or discipline for screaming in the face of immediate danger? No, Daoism isn't a religion | |||
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Member |
So how long have you worked in LE? How many times have you had a loaded gun stuck in your face by some one who wants to kill you? She isn't in the military and I am damn sure soldiers have screamed in battle before. Knock off your know it all attitude. You are not impressing any one. ----------------------------- Always carry. Never tell. | |||
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| The Quiet Man |
They drill that radio HARD into rookies. Call for help. If all you can get out is a shout for help, get it out. Suspects know about radios and will attempt to get them away from the officer to isolate them. Of course this is meant for regular fights, not lethal armed encounters, but sometimes you run on autopilot. Maybe she wasn’t thinking. Maybe she didn’t know the other officer had made the scene. Never said her response was perfect, only that it was as good as any reasonable person could ask. At the same time, if she’d been found on the side of the road people would be asking why she didn’t get on the radio. We lost an officer a couple years ago and found out when a citizen keyed up on his radio asking for help after the fact. Keyboard tactics experts jumped on why he didn’t call for help. He was fighting. That’s why. Mistakes were made. Hell, I made plenty of them myself. We are all human. When it mattered, her response was sufficient to keep her alive. I lost one of my very best friends, a 6’7 monster of a man, in a similar situation. Not a traffic stop, but taken by surprise by an armed suspect at close quarters. She’s alive. I’d gladly buy both of those officers a beer. Lord knows they likely need them. | |||
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Member |
Thanks for the responses. Again, it was a "seeking to understand" moment, as I have no grounds to critique at all. I don't know how the men and women in blue do their jobs day in and day out...takes a SPECIAL kind of person and I fully appreciate what y'all do!! Be safe and get home after every shift! "If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24 | |||
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| Member |
She’s made a few mistakes and she’s lucky to be alive. She’ll learn from them and move forward. | |||
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posting without pants |
:Space saver for later: Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up." | |||
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| Member |
No need to save space for me: Its all good. Note the speed at which this contact went from "suspicious" to deadly. When this occurs, you must act. She acted. She lived. Backup acted. Bad guy down. They acted. Its all good. Comes to mind the old adage: He who hesitates is lost! End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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Member |
I am in no position to judge the female officers reaction. I'm happy she got to go home. I do want to commend the back-up officer. That was a tremendous shot to the shitbags face.  | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
Armchair commandos. Got to love them. Q | |||
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Raptorman |
She did fine. Her vocalizations alerted her backup to trouble and the backup ended it with a single shot to the asshole's face. She had control over that revolver until he could get there. All she had to do was keep enough strength on it to prevent the trigger from being pulled. The backup didn't waste any time helping either, straight to business. Hell, I want to buy him a good dinner too! ____________________________ Eeewwww, don't touch it! Here, poke at it with this stick. | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss  |
Reminds me of this one from a few years back. ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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| Rail-less and Tail-less |
I’ve seen grown fucking men scream like that when people jump out and scare them as a prank. Stick a gun in their face and they might shit themselves. Anyone who hasn’t been in the situation has no right to question her professionalism. Ps: looks like the shittum took one right in the brain stem....instant lights out. _______________________________________________ Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes. | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
Thank you! Something that we all need to realize is that situations like this do have an effect on all of us. Yup, on you and on me. While I have not been the subject of a traffic stop for more than 25 years, I have thought about it, and discussed it with some pretty senior cop friends of mine. The potential problem, as I see it: occurrences like this have a tendency to make cops nervous, or if not nervous, maybe very alert and primed to act quickly. If I am stopped, the last thing I want is a nervous cop. Especially when I am carrying. Florida law does not require that you volunteer the information that you are armed. What if I am asked to step out of the vehicle and the cop is sharp-eyed enough to notice a lump on my hip, under my shirt? This is potentially a scary situation, and is one of the reasons that I am really religious about speed limits (I love my cruise control!), stop signs, full stop before right turn on red, etc. I do not want a traffic stop. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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| Member |
often times folks who use the 'arm chair quarterbacks' defense are merely apologists for poor performance giving people a pass because of 'stress' or 'heat of the moment' is ensuring improvements are never made proper training allows a person to overcome the base human response to stress she clearly needs more training ---------------------------------------------------- Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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Still finding my way |
And I find that those who criticize from behind a keyboard are broadcasting their own insecurities. Nobody is impressed by your "analysis". | |||
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| Rail-less and Tail-less |
Ok I have a few questions ... 1. How many times have you gone all Rambo when someone tried to shoot you in the face? Because from your postings it seems like it must happen a lot. 2. Did you use the “Mozambique” two to the chest and one to the head drill on them? 3. What’s it like to be Jason Bourne? 4. Do you have a specific set of skills that you acquired over a long career that make you a nightmare for people like him? _______________________________________________ Use thumb-size bullets to create fist-size holes. | |||
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| Freethinker |
I don’t train the theory and practice of traffic stops per se, but I do train on many things that relate to an incident like this. As a courtesy, then, to fellow trainers I’m asking this question. What, specifically, should her remedial training involve? If you were responsible for that training, what topics would you cover? What would you tell her not to do, and, more important, what to do if she were making similar contact with someone like that tonight? And how would that training be conducted? Would it consist of a lecture, or something more/else? How do we ensure that our students absorb the training and, most important of all, are able to employ it in sudden, unexpected crisis situations? As a trainer myself I’m always looking to improve what I teach people and how I do it. That means I listen to what people who are more expert than I am have to say about critical subjects. Because it seems that you’re in that category, I’m hoping you can share a bit of your expertise with those of us, like myself, who would benefit from it. Thanks in advance. ► 6.4/93.6 “ Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one’s own understanding without another’s guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one’s own mind without another’s guidance.” — Immanuel Kant | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
From an academic standpoint, this video will be in circulation for many years to come to serve as a "what not to do" example. The officer may have "done good" but she forced much of her reaction by extremely poor, and lazy officer safety tactics. Had the officer actually received training, or followed the training she was given, this would not have happened. She is the product of poor, or nonexistent training, or she just doesn't care enough to pay attention. The idea that you can either be smart or strong, this is what strong looks like. She violated so many principles of conducting traffic stops that her poor decisions put her in the fight of her life. Lots of officers are killed/assaulted because they are just this sloppy and look like food. I care not about the whole "how many guns have you had stuck in your face". I really don't. I am more interested in the guns that I found after the fact because my traffic stop tactics never gave the turd the chance to use them. | |||
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