Do you guys seriously believe there is a connection between these two incidents? It doesn't seem remotely likely to me. But according to the internet, I'm in a very small minority in that opinion.

There is no connection

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Originally posted by tatortodd:

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:

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Originally posted by chellim1:

was possibly the first suicide bombing in American history...

the country’s first domestic suicide bomber

Nope. He'd be about #7:

1959 Houston, TX. Guy blew himself up inside an elementary school.

1962 Continental Airlines flight over Iowa. Guy blew himself up while on a commercial flight.

1976 Mason County, WV. Guy forced his way inside the county jail/courthouse and blew himself up inside.

1998 Danville, IL. Serial bomber blew himself up after being confronted by law enforcement.

2005 University of Oklahoma. Guy blew himself up with a backpack bomb outside a football game.

2018 Austin, TX. Serial bomber blew himself up after confronted by law enforcement.


(Granted, 2 of those 6 were merely attempting to kill themselves to avoid capture, so aren't in the same category as those trying to take others with them, and the college football one could have been either accidental premature detonation or intentional suicide. But still, far from the first.)

First to my knowledge was Bath School massacre 1927. Despicable scumbag did 3 bombings in about 15 minutes - blew his house up, blew the school up 15 minutes after school started, and blew himself and school superintendent up.

Ya beat me to this one. About 31 air miles and 46 road miles from here to there. Been there once, the cupola of the schoolhouse is preserved as a memorial.

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Originally posted by 911Boss:

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Originally posted by AllenInAR:
I'd really expect someone with an 18-series MOS to build a better bomb than random flammables in the back of an ugly electric truck.

I’m thinking maybe the “poor” explosive design/vehicle choice may have been intentional. Suicidal, wanted to make an anti Trump/Musk statement, but wasn’t necessarily looking for a big body count of collateral damage.

Especially considering the decision to use fireworks. They are designed for flashy, colorful show without much destructive force. If he really wanted more damage, a bunch of Gerry cans of gas would have been easier and probably do more damage.

This theory gets some support from the suspect's uncle, Dean Livelsberger: "Matt was a very skilled warrior, and he would be able to make — if it was him, and if he did this — he would’ve been able to make a more sophisticated explosive than using propane tanks and camping fuel," he reportedly said. "He was what you might call a ‘supersoldier.’ If you ever read about the things he was awarded and the experience he had, some of it doesn’t make sense, when he had the skills and ability to make something more, let’s say, ‘efficient.’ His skills were enormous from what he had been taught in the military."

With those skills, Dean said, Livelsberger "could have fashioned a bomb that would have obliterated half of that hotel if he seriously wanted to hurt others."

Oddly, though, apparently he was a Trump supporter.

Fox News

What skills do you guys imagine he had?

I have no clue. I assume we send our guys in with pre-made explosives to blow stuff up. I don't imagine we train them to be chemists cooking up their own explosives for building their own bombs. I do imagine we train them to improvise blowing stuff up with commonly available items like gasoline, propane, and white gas. And maybe even things like fireworks which I imagine are readily available before New Year's Eve.

I'm probably wrong.

ABC is reporting he and his current wife (not the one he's pictured with in the photos from 8 years ago posted earlier in this thread) had an argument around Christmas and he left. That and that he bought the guns on Monday leads me to believe that his actions weren't part of some pre-planned sophisticated plot.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do you guys seriously believe there is a connection between these two incidents? It doesn't seem remotely likely to me. But according to the internet, I'm in a very small minority in that opinion.

In order to establish a connection between these two incidents I would want some evidence that they 1. knew each other and 2. had some recent communication.
I don't think there's any evidence of either, just some people shouting MK Ultra...

It's futile to even attempt to reason with people over this. Believe me, I am one who fights the good fight against this kind of nonsense, but in this case, I think all we can do is let all the Double-Naught Spies exhaust themselves.

Ultimately, no connection will be found between these two events, and both of these people will be determined to have acted alone and independently.

But that, you see, is merely further evidence of a massive coverup.

You can't possibly believe two guys independently came up with the idea to kill or attempt to kill a bunch of people on the most popular night of the year for people to gather outside in compact crowds all over the world? There's only 8 billion people on the planet, the odds of two of them thinking the same thing must be astronomical.

Next thing you know, you'll try telling me two people independently developed Calculus at the same time.

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Originally posted by trapper189:
Next thing you know, you'll try telling me two people independently invented Calculus at the same time.

Clever

Wait, it's true?

My thought is utterly disconnected. And, I think that the Las Vegas guy, given his expertise, really screwed it up. Something very weird going on there.

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Originally posted by scratchy:
Something very weird going on there.

When incompetence and no access to real boom stuff doesn't fit?

He spent all his money on renting the truck and fireworks.

The dude was active duty special forces. I imagine if he'd really wanted to cause some carnage, he could have found a way to acquire the materials he needed to do so. We'll probably never know his motives for sure, but I lean towards he was just trying to punch his own ticket while making a statement (hence the Cybertruck and Trump hotel) rather than intentionally trying to maximize body count.

The 'evidence' we have available publicly seems to indicate two separate incidents. I'm not even convinced Cyber truck guy was trying to kill a lot of people. With zero confidence in the media and public officials who lie routinely, I have empathy for anyone not convinced there is nothing to see.

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Originally posted by scratchy:
My thought is utterly disconnected. And, I think that the Las Vegas guy, given his expertise, really screwed it up. Something very weird going on there.

You only think that because no one really knows what happened. But it could be something completely 180 degrees from what everyone is speculating.

Maybe the guy was planning on letting off some steam in the desert by firing off some rounds and setting off some fireworks while doing some ATVing (which is why he had the gas). Maybe he pulled up to the Trump hotel a complete wreck over his wife and said fuck it and impulsively put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. If there were gas fumes building inside the vehicle, they would've instantly ignited. There have been cases of people filling up a gas container, putting it in their car, and then later lighting a cigarette causing an explosion. This is not unheard of.

Point being, when the truth comes out (if it does), odds are it won't be as sexy as the engagement farmers online desperately want it to be.

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Originally posted by trapper189:
What skills do you guys imagine he had?

I have no clue. I assume we send our guys in with pre-made explosives to blow stuff up. I don't imagine we train them to be chemists cooking up their own explosives for building their own bombs. I do imagine we train them to improvise blowing stuff up with commonly available items like gasoline, propane, and white gas. And maybe even things like fireworks which I imagine are readily available before New Year's Eve.

Not to fuel a conspiracy theory, but one of SF's missions is to teach relatively ill-equipped and untrained locals to become guerrillas and fight their battles. So, I expect improvising weapons and explosives *is* part of their skill sets.

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Originally posted by trapper189:
Next thing you know, you'll try telling me two people independently developed Calculus at the same time.

Well, Newton was about 10 years ahead of Leibniz.

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
You only think that because no one really knows what happened. But it could be something completely 180 degrees from what everyone is speculating.

Maybe the guy was planning on letting off some steam in the desert by firing off some rounds and setting off some fireworks while doing some ATVing (which is why he had the gas). Maybe he pulled up to the Trump hotel a complete wreck over his wife and said fuck it and impulsively put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger. If there were gas fumes building inside the vehicle, they would've instantly ignited. There have been cases of people filling up a gas container, putting it in their car, and then later lighting a cigarette causing an explosion. This is not unheard of.

Point being, when the truth comes out (if it does), odds are it won't be as sexy as the engagement farmers online desperately want it to be.

It could be just a simple suicide. Who knows?
But if so, why rent a Tesla Cybertruck? They are expensive, it required 9 re-charging stops on his 1000 mile journey... and why do it there?
We will probably never know.

But I don't think it was his plan to take out a bunch of people. If so, he could have done a better job of it.

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Originally posted by DrDan:

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Originally posted by trapper189:
What skills do you guys imagine he had?

I have no clue. I assume we send our guys in with pre-made explosives to blow stuff up. I don't imagine we train them to be chemists cooking up their own explosives for building their own bombs. I do imagine we train them to improvise blowing stuff up with commonly available items like gasoline, propane, and white gas. And maybe even things like fireworks which I imagine are readily available before New Year's Eve.

Not to fuel a conspiracy theory, but one of SF's missions is to teach relatively ill-equipped and untrained locals to become guerrillas and fight their battles. So, I expect improvising weapons and explosives *is* part of their skill sets.

You are correct. The military does host a school (maybe multiple schools but I’m intimately familiar with one) for the express purpose of teaching SF types how to create explosives from commonly available materials. Obviously the preference is to use known good quality military provided explosives, but our guys will do what they need to in order to get the job done. Not everyone gets this kind of training but those who might need it will receive it.

Having said that, I agree that the chances of the 2 events being related, based upon the information available at this time are incredibly unlikely. Any shared characteristics are almost certainly a coincidence at this point. Although everyone wants answers right away, the reality is that it takes some time to scour people’s history, gather evidence from scenes, homes, etc. and make a truly educated conclusion. Each incident must be treated as its own incident regardless and let the evidence and facts fall where they may. It’s very important to avoid confirmation bias when incidents like this occur.

My guess is wife wanted a divorce and Livelsberger was making sure she would not get half his Army retirement (since he offed himself prior to 20). I doubt he wanted to hurt anyone other than himself, but wanted to go out with a bang.