No problem slosig. Thank you. Moving on.

Thinking out loud, the obvious fact he was ripe for suicide makes me question the motives of the assigned guards or if they had any outside or inside incentive not to check on him and allow him to do his thing. Maybe it's just a fubar federal jail situation. Awaiting answers like everyone. As far as I know, the medical examiner still hasn't ruled and issued a report. Kinda strange.

Just seems to be a perfect storm of circumstances. Off suicide watch so soon, not being watched every 30 minutes or whatever the standard is, cellmate moved out and not replaced when one is required ... etc etc and all allegedly coincidental.

I don't have the article in front of me but read earlier that the former police officer who is up for the death penalty in a drug deal gone wrong murder conviction and who was Mr Epstein's former cellmate the first time Mr Epstein tried to commit suicide AND was his cellmate up until a few hours before his alleged suicide has spoken through his lawyer and stated all was quiet in Mr Epstein's cell the morning of his death. The reports of "shouting and shrieking", can perhaps be attributed to guards discovering the body. Who knows.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobbs:

Just seems to be a perfect storm of circumstances. Off suicide watch so soon,...

Maybe it was too soon in this case but I promise you suicide watches typically don’t go on for any longer than they can be cleared.

For instance, Inmate A tells staff they are hearing voices telling them to hurt themselves Monday at 1800. In my facility (not federal, so different for sure) they will be placed in the appropriate cell and protocols for additional checks by custody, custody supervision, medical, and mental health begin immediately. Around 0600 Tuesday a mental health practitioner (for us it’s a LCSW or Mental Health RN, or above) and a Custody Staff supervisor will visit the inmate and asses. If they state they aren’t hearing voices, have no thoughts of self harm, will be fine, and will tell custody staff if any of that changes they will be cleared and sent to general housing.

Now, if Inmate B makes suicidal gestures such as superficial cutting to themselves guess how that progresses? Exactly the same. They could just as easily be cleared the next morning.

What if Inmate C makes a more significant gesture, say cuts that require sutures or even a trip to the ER? Nothing changes. If they answer correctly, and believably, they get cleared.

Let’s say Inmate D runs away from staff and, while handcuffed behind their back, jumps like a dang dolphin over a 48” railing on the 2nd floor and tries out gravity, face first. Well, that one will spend about 5 days at the hospital, come back, say all the right things and never even be placed on suicide watch.

So is it possible there was something funky about clearing him? Sure is. Is it possible he was suicidal but made a decision to try and fool the assessment, successfully? Sure is. Is it possible he was legitimately cleared because he actually wasn’t suicidal anymore but that changed a few hours later? Sure is.

One final point: generally speaking, inmates aren’t nice people and often say “mean things” to other inmates.... especially other inmates charged with a certain type of crime. I am positive, based upon my experience, that other inmates in that unit were harassing and shouting and encouraging that giant child molesting POS to do the world a favor and end it... and not because they were paid to do so... because they’re inmates, and that’s what they do.

Latest news is that the warden and a couple others have been shit canned.

Glad to see the NYPD is on scene monitoring the FBI.

quote:

Originally posted by kimber1911:
Glad to see the NYPD is on scene monitoring the FBI.

It's a pity, isn't it, that it's come to that?

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:
But it is even more believable that it was a particular confluence of events (removal from SW because he said the right things, it’s not hard), a legit inmate transfer (happens every day), lazy guards not doing their rounds (also happens every day, I assure you), and a man willing to end his own troubles.

Epstein was a VIP. The highest profile prisoner in the jail. He had high price lawyers that no doubt were working for his release. I don’t believe that the warden or those dealing with Epstein wouldn’t treat him other then with kid gloves.

A 19 year old n for drug dealing? Yes, I can see lazy officers, not doing their rounds and people not caring.

So, we should, what, ignore the evidence because some of you guys just know that things are not as they appear? I mean, you just know it. You don't know it, but you just know it.

Cherry-picking the facts or simply choosing to ignore the evidence altogether means that you can simply make up your own story about what happened. If you want to be taken seriously on the subject, this is not the way to go about it.

He was arrested how many days ago and it took until yesterday to search the house?
WTF??

First thing people have to come to terms with is Bill Clinton was never going to jail because of anything Epstein was going to say or even spend a day in court. Bill or Hillary are never going to jail for anything,period. There are pages upon pages in various threads here where many here myself included fantasizing about Hillary in a orange jump suit and actually were waiting for the day.

This is why many cannot come to terms with the fact Epstein committed suicide. Because had Epstein lived he was going to turn on Billy boy and Billy boy was going to jail so somebody had to off Epstein to save old Billy boy's ass once again. But man we were so damn close this time!!

I came to terms with the fact some time ago that there will never be any accountability at the Clinton level and that includes Comey, McCabe Strozk, Page any of 'em. And they don't have to have people killed in order to keep things that way.

It's not easy to come to terms with that but once you do things become much clearer and you become much happier. My goal has become to live long enough to see as many of them go to the grave under whatever circumstances put them there as possible.

^^^ It ain't over yet.

The fact that the warden was "reassigned" is why the Federal Government is so inept in many areas. Hardly anyone gets fired.

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thumperfbc:

Epstein was a VIP. The highest profile prisoner in the jail. He had high price lawyers that no doubt were working for his release. I don’t believe that the warden or those dealing with Epstein wouldn’t treat him other then with kid gloves.

A 19 year old n for drug dealing? Yes, I can see lazy officers, not doing their rounds and people not caring.

I’m afraid you overestimate people. Not all, certainly. But a significant portion.

Plus, you fail to account for complacency over time. I imagine you are correct.... for the first week. But it’s been over a month now, I believe. People adapt. The routine takes over. People return to their normal ways.

I guarantee it. Obviously I can’t back that guarantee up, but I’m sure.

Edit: to clarify, I guarantee and am sure that whatever “kid gloves” and extra attention had been afforded to the deceased has since largely faded away.

My personal opinion is that the dude hit the easy button and took the rest of his life off. A lot of other theoretical possibilities, sure. But not my belief.

Logical explanations have been given. Every day, logical explanations in various matters are reported in media, presented in courts and expressed before congress. At the end of the day, I'm 100% positive we will have a logical explanation.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobbs:
Logical explanations have been given. Every day, logical explanations in various matters are reported in media, presented in courts and expressed before congress. At the end of the day, I'm 100% positive we will have a logical explanation.

The responses from our skeptics in this incident have become predictable: No matter what evidence appears, no matter who tesifies under oath to what, no matter what the photographs of the death scene show, no matter what the eye witnesses say, some of you guys will simply produce a rationale on the spot, the very moment you are presented with such data.

"Every day, logical explanations in various matters are reported in media, presented in courts and expressed before congress." This statement is a perfect example. Let's just dilute/negate any evidence or testimony by making broad statements of the obvious. Hell, let's broaden it even more, by stating something even more obvious, something even more basic to human nature: people lie. There ya go! People have lied since before humans even possessed the capacity of speech and shall continue to lie for all of humanity's existence, therefore...

Come on

D.B. Cooper did it.........with a candlestick in the pantry.

The truth is so often very dull and boring. I could use this post to type out a couple of paragraphs of pure fantasy about life, and I could make it whatever I wish for it to be.

But, the truth, the real, actual truth of things- so very often, it's utterly banal. Conspiracies and shadowy characters committing risky acts, thats so much more interesting. If it weren't, no one would be interested in reading fiction novels, would they? Why would they? They could stick to reading history books and listening to the local 5 AM farm report and be more entertained and intrigued than with a bunch of made-up stuff.

So, when all is said and done- when all the evidence is gathered, when all the testimony is given, all investigations completed and reports issued, and they all conclude that Epstein committed suicide, you guys will be able to wave it off for any number of reasons, none of which will have anything to do with empirical evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
He was arrested how many days ago and it took until yesterday to search the house?
WTF??

Maybe this is one of those “Nobody else has standing to challenge the search warrant.” deals like his house.

Any chance that it's a second raid?