quote:

Originally posted by prj:
I like Rey HRH's description of the challenge; that everyone's foundation is significantly different.

Much of the problem reconciling differing belief systems is simply a lack of contact with those of different beliefs, and a lack of face to face discussion of same. I'm guilty as well, almost no contact with members of the other political party, and unfortunately, absolutely no discussion of political topics.

Those spouting simple inanities like "liberalism is a mental disorder", or a religion, or liberals lack common sense, however many of the simplistic and trite catch phrases thrown about, obviously haven't had a discussion of a thoughtful member from the other clan. Certainly, in this forum, one is not going to materialize, and I understand that.

I'd like to think that 80% of this country could speak readily to one another, at ease, and reach either consensus on a topic, or agree to disagree on an ultimate goal based upon some preference. Lets say that 10% at each extreme may be unreachable, and dealing with beliefs not anchored in common fact or truth.

Except the part in your post that I highlighted in bold shows a lack of thoughtfulness. Because if you did give it some thought and you want to convey your reasonableness, you would also have mentioned inanities spouted by leftist liberals.

I actively pursue discussions and debates with leftist liberals (as opposed to classical liberals) in leftist liberal infested forums. I do so to maintain the sharpness of my critical thinking skills, to look for critical thinking skills in others, and as more the normal case, to enjoy low hanging fruits like shooting fish in a barrel. One would think I could meet, at least, one thoughtful, reachable person who would discuss issues and readily agree to disagree instead of relying on the usual inanities uttered by leftist liberals. But, alas, I have yet to meet one or remember meeting one in recent history.

Either they end up with their inane ad hominems or, if they are somewhat smart, they simply avoid engaging me in future discussions because I show their argument is faulty by showing either their premises are false or their inferences are invalid.

Your thinking that 80% of this country could speak readily to one another is faulty unless you've not seen the discussions on current events such as masks, vaccines, and January 6. Current events show 80% of this country could NOT readily speak to others of different opinions, "at ease, and reach either consensus on a topic, or agree to disagree." Seriously.

Otherwise, I invite you to lay out your argument that supports your idea that "80% of this country could speak readily to one another at ease."

quote:

ETA: One who lives in fantasy too long eventually loses the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. That is a mental disorder. And thus the phrase: Liberalism is a mental disorder. I would say Leftism is. Classic liberalism is nothing that modern liberalism/Leftism is.

This is also referred to as psychosis.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
… I just wish others could see how horrible they are but they can’t. They just double down on their terrible ideas. But I cannot say they’re not intelligent. I’m becoming convinced that they’re simply evil. But I can’t condemn them because so was I.

A quote that sort of explains my statement:
“One's concern with the ethics of means and ends varies inversely with one's personal interest in the issue.” - Saul Alinsky

Even if they see their own horribleness, it matters little because they’ve invested so much into their pet personal interests. The means of horribleness is justified by their imagined ends.

Or consider Euripides:

"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish."

There are certainly no shortage of fools today, intelligent or not, particularly on the left.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Pay attention, Democrats interviewed in recent days think those who refuse the vaxx should be rounded up in camps. Or worse.

You and I are seeing this in real time - it's not a vague academic discussion, it's live. We know now how a nation would persecute not only Japanese Americans, we also see how the Jews were rounded up for elimination. The people using the media are actually trying to create that much division for their own ends.

Look around, it's right out there.

How very dramatic. I've seen the Rassmussen poll you reference.

Let's get real. Leftists support all sorts of stupid, insane shit. This is nothing new; far from it, actually. No one is getting thrown in a camp. It would be simultaneously entertaining and tragic to watch them try. Even those insane bastards know better. It's just talk and nothing more. Plain and simple, people would die, so, they know better.

And the word is "vaccinated". In this forum, I do not permit the use of these COVID slang terms.

I didn’t believe it when my son sent me photographs of them building them nine months ago in Washington state.

They are for real.


The binding law for internment is in a fully democratic state legislature right now. This would be a very real problem like no other.


****EDIT:

Just went looking for validating links and unfortunately the first couple of pages of Google is covered by the alphabet media mostly NBC providing cover that the Washington state health department said that this absolutely was not going to happen. LOL

I’ve seen the camps. I’ve seen the signs on the camps declaring that they are quarantine detention facilities.

Yes, it would be a problem- for them.

As the saying goes, which seems to be so popular these days, fuck around and find out. I'm not taking their Goddamned poison and they aren't putting me anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Yes, it would be a problem- for them.

As the saying goes, which seems to be so popular these days, fuck around and find out. I'm not taking their Goddamned poison and they aren't putting me anywhere.

I don’t worry about myself. But don’t touch my family. Not doing the Australia thing.

In the main, the people they want to strip of their Constitutional rights are armed to the teeth.

And they know it

"The trouble with the world is not that people know too little; it's that they know so many things that just aren't so." -Mark Twain

I think it's not that those on the left are lacking intelligence, but because of something inherent in their personalities they are just more prone to believe whatever they are told without doing the research to validate their beliefs. This may stem from a lack of common sense, an inability to consider both sides of an argument, or the willful disbelief and rejection of a cognitively dissonant realization that their premises may in fact be wrong. Many reject what should be an epiphany in the name of maintaining their identity, even when presented with irrefutable facts.

On a simpler level, many were simply never taught the value of personal responsibility, hard work, and the true definition of Liberty. They are perfectly content to believe whatever those they look up to in government, media and popular culture say without question.

A big advantage leftists have in politics is their ability to stick together and vote in lockstep, setting aside their personal beliefs for advancement of the cause as a whole.

Conservatives by their nature are more nuanced and tend to stand up for their personal beliefs and are much less cohesive as a group.



...Then on the other hand, it could be like George Carlin said: "Think about how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." Additionally: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

The WSJ today reminded me of a quote from Willima F. Buckley that I rather liked: “Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”

Just because someone is intelligent, does not mean they have any common sense. In my business I meet a lot of extremely intelligent people when it comes to the field they're in. However, when it comes to real life, they're complete idiots. As far as the idiot leftists, they simply believe every single thing the DNC tells them, without researching anything.

The difference between calling someone stupid and unwise has little distinction. It’s still just ad hominem. Both are insulting in the same way.

I’d rather we talk about having the ability to expose conflict than to just say they have knowledge but don’t know how to apply it.

Personally, I think there is a huge sense of confusion when it comes to education versus intelligence. Many times these two terms are conflated as being the same thing. They are not. Many liberals are very well educated via the traditional education systems, but IMO lack any sense of real intelligence born out of real world experiences. 'Real' intelligence leaves open the possibility that no matter how much you've researched and considered a topic, you still could be wrong, and that via discussion and debates with others, you often times can arrive at a view of a topic that more closely mirrors the truth/reality. Members who have been here for some time will remember JALLEN. I had many discussions and even some debates with him over a number of topics, topics we viewed very differently, yet those interactions were always respectful and always fruitful in the end because both parties left open the possibility of the other having something of value to contribution to the conversation/debate. However, when today's liberals argue that there is no difference between women and men, or that anyone who wants to come to this country should be allowed to regardless of the finite nature of the resources here, or that this country can print whatever currency necessary to make everyone's lives nirvana, or that white people are the root of everything wrong with the world, there can be no debate or exchange of ideas based on the absurdity of these positions. This is where the concept of mental illness being a cornerstone of modern liberalism comes into play. It is simply impossible to discuss, debate, or even interact with liberal/progressives who no longer embrace any form of reality in their views, and are incapable of accepting that different viewpoints on topics could be correct. When emotion overrides intellect as it does in most hardcore liberal/progressives, and reality no longer matters or becomes a part of the debate, intelligence disappears and partisanship flourishes. Welcome to America 2022.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
Just because someone is intelligent, does not mean they have any common sense.

And, Just because they're educated, doesn't mean they're smart!

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
The difference between calling someone stupid and unwise has little distinction. It’s still just ad hominem. Both are insulting in the same way.

I’d rather we talk about having the ability to expose conflict than to just say they have knowledge but don’t know how to apply it.

I wish it worked that way but it doesn’t. Dealing with these people is the old “I can explain it to you but I cant understand it for you”.

As demonstrated in this thread, they don’t deal in logic. A great recent example is they believe in their soul that it is RACIST to require an ID to vote. It disenfranchises minorities and adversely causes hardships on minorities.

They also believe it isn’t RACIST to require ID to go to Burger King, the gym, a movie theater or any other day to day place.

Either requiring ID causes hardships or it doesn’t. It shows you that they are ruled by emotion and can’t get out of their own way.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
The difference between calling someone stupid and unwise has little distinction.

Disagree. There's a world of difference between the two.

One of my best friends, who I regard as quite smart, opted for the Wu Flu jabs. He made his decision based upon the due diligence he performed. Based upon my due diligence I feel his decision to have been unwise, but I do not regard it as having been stupid or as his having acted stupidly.

Another example, in reverse: My other best friend, when he found out I'd become a 1911 aficionado and now carried a 1911 in Condition 1, asked, startled: "You're carrying cocked and locked?!?!" (This guy is quite familiar with firearms and was the best handgun shooter I've ever known personally, btw.) "Yup," I replied, with a smile. He obviously questioned my wisdom, but he knows I didn't make the choice stupidly.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
It’s still just ad hominem.

Ad hominem ≠ insult. An insult is an ad hominem only when it's used in an attempt to further or win an argument by impugning the arguer, rather than the argument. It's a logical fallacy.

I’m talking about in practice, not ideally. If you call me a total moron or you say “you’re not applying any of that knowledge you’ve acquired” it’s difference without distinction. One is just a bit kinder but not really. Neither accomplishes anything. Neither makes a point.

I think it boils down to the convenience of a low resolution ideology. Most people don't have the time between raising kids. Managing a career, and marriage to spend much time figuring out what they think about politics and policy. That's why most people who identify as Democrats believe the whole ball of wax at once. Allegiants to the ideology is quick, easy, and provides access to a group. And, most important in a low resolution form it provides wiggle room around inconvenient inconsistencies and problems with said ideology. That's why you never get anywhere with them when you provide a good, solid, logical argument. They use their low resolution ideology to just shut down and wiggle around it and they just reboot their minds back to basic form of their ideology. Its quick, safe, and above all easy.