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Why can seemingly intelligent adults differ so wildly on common points? Login/Join 
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Picture of Ripley
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If you believe the opposition are less than human, it's less of a leap to accept alternative reasoning. As Limbaugh said, leftism is easy.




Set the controls for the heart of the Sun.
 
Posts: 8562 | Location: Flown-over country | Registered: December 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
quote:
Originally posted by smschulz:
To me the left/right liberal/conservative democrat/republican boils down to just one basic conflict:
Control of your life.
g

The paradox is liberals have 2 sets of people: Those who want to be in control, and those liberals who are happily under their control.

I can understand those who want to control others, but I never understood why so many are willing to be controlled, and vote as such.
The same could be said for Trump and his followers



Curious … how so?
You don't think Trump wanted/wants to control others and just look at his followers. They are the definition of controlled. They believe everything he says, most of which he makes up as he goes alon
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: December 10, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
You don't think Trump wanted/wants to control others and just look at his followers. They are the definition of controlled. They believe everything he says, most of which he makes up as he goes alon


Oh go fuck yourself with that. When Trump banned bump stocks there was plenty of his supporters who were vocal about the lunacy of that. Same with his mention of suppressors and when he seemingly gave support for red flag laws. In addition he had recently been boo’d on multiple occasions for supporting the vaccine.

There have been multiple things Trump has said and done that draw criticism from his supporters.




“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 15277 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
Picture of oddball
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quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
You don't think Trump wanted/wants to control others and just look at his followers. They are the definition of controlled. They believe everything he says, most of which he makes up as he goes alon


I'll give it to you simply, in crayon.




"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 17196 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigforum K9 handler
Picture of jljones
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Well. I think this thread took a turn to highlight part of the problem. The false narrative that Trump supporters believe everything that Trump says, versus Trump believes the same things that many in this country already do.

I blame the lack of ability to make this distinction on social media creating the impression that the majority of Americans hated Trump. They fail to understand that FB and Twitter aren’t real. But, they believe that the majority of Americans are left leaning. They believe that leftist policies work, despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.

You simply can’t have logical discussions with people that aren’t logical.




www.opspectraining.com

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them"



 
Posts: 37195 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
You don't think Trump wanted/wants to control others and just look at his followers. They are the definition of controlled. They believe everything he says, most of which he makes up as he goes alon


Oh go fuck yourself with that. When Trump banned bump stocks there was plenty of his supporters who were vocal about the lunacy of that. Same with his mention of suppressors and when he seemingly gave support for red flag laws. In addition he had recently been boo’d on multiple occasions for supporting the vaccine.

There have been multiple things Trump has said and done that draw criticism from his supporters.
GO fuck myself??? Am I not entitled to my opinion? And when I made that statement I wasn't just talking about firearms. You may love Trump and that's fine I may be completely wrong in my beliefs about him but at least I'm man enough to admit it. I don't have to resort to vulgar language just because someone doen't fell the same way I do.
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: December 10, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
Well. I think this thread took a turn to highlight part of the problem. The false narrative that Trump supporters believe everything that Trump says, versus Trump believes the same things that many in this country already do.

I blame the lack of ability to make this distinction on social media creating the impression that the majority of Americans hated Trump. They fail to understand that FB and Twitter aren’t real. But, they believe that the majority of Americans are left leaning. They believe that leftist policies work, despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.

You simply can’t have logical discussions with people that aren’t logical.
I agree with you about the logical discussions
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: December 10, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by oddball:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
You don't think Trump wanted/wants to control others and just look at his followers. They are the definition of controlled. They believe everything he says, most of which he makes up as he goes alon


I'll give it to you simply, in crayon.

Nice artwork
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: December 10, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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quote:
Originally posted by radioman:
Is there anyone who started out by leaning left, and then slowly over time changed, and took a turn to the conservative side once life started to happen? Maybe in about the mid 20's or so?

Honestly I've seen more than one liberal hippy turned conservative yuppie. I have one in my family.

Well, the old saying was that, “If you’re not a liberal under thirty, you don’t have a heart, and if you’re not a conservative after thirty, you don’t have a brain.”
 
Posts: 7100 | Location: Lost, but making time. | Registered: February 23, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
crazy heart
Picture of mod29
posted Hide Post
"...Why can seemingly intelligent adults differ so wildly on common points?..."

Great question and one I have struggled with for a long time.
There are so many issues that seem so basic, it's hard to imagine anyone arguing about them.

Secure borders?
Law and order?
Pulling your own weight?
If you want or need something, earn it?
Personal responsibility?
Love and appreciation of your country?
Strong military to protect that country?
Appreciation for the U.S. Constitution, as written?

How Americans can argue these points, and many others, is beyond me.
Is it ignorance? That might explain part of it.

Education (or lack of it) doesn't seem to explain it. I've seen both argue these points from either position.
 
Posts: 1796 | Location: WA | Registered: January 07, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
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quote:
Originally posted by Ripley:
If you believe the opposition are less than human, it's less of a leap to accept alternative reasoning. As Limbaugh said, leftism is easy.


That's exactly the same reasoning the Army used on its troops when I was in and even before that.

Japs, Nips, slopes, towel heads, krauts, gooks, etc.

Dehumanize the enemy and they're no longer human so it won't bother you much to kill them.

Do the same thing to conservatives and their points are no longer valid and they're no longer human either.
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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If you want to anger a Republican, tell a lie. If you want anger a Democrat, tell the truth.
 
Posts: 47 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: April 24, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
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quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
Leftism is a religion. There is no room for negotiation in one's religion, is there? How can you reason with people who think it impossible that they are ever wrong?

That's the short answer, the very short answer.

"I will say one other thing- that the left, over that period (50 or 60 years) have tended to take the view that simply by holding the opinions they have and being on the side of what they term 'progress' , they are themselves moral and that those who don't hold their views- which I don't- are themselves immoral." - Peter Hitchens

<Video snipped>


His points are excellent. Calling it a religion certainly hits at the root of it. I've long held that foundations of beliefs, which a person's religion certainly is, coupled with the process in which a person views and responds to all things, are at their base completely broken with liberals. The causes can be many, but the end result is broken. Those who say that they are mentally ill, are not wrong. It really is a mental illness, but it is one that can be caught, can be trained, and the longer it is unchallenged and reinforced the more difficult it is to repair. For some, being removed from the ability to hurt others with their illness is the only solution. Like typhoid Mary, it may seem cruel to lock up a person for something they can't control, but when released Mary chose to run around and infect everyone again. It was ultimate selfishness, the core belief of a liberal is that they themselves are the most important entity. They often work very hard to give the impression of charity and care for others, but when you distill it down to their core beliefs of why they would do such things it always ends up being self-serving.

As Peter Hitchens points out in this video, liberals will do terrible and evil things because they are serving a different purpose than they should. At the end of the day they feel justified because it serves their main purpose, which is themselves.

Most liberals today are ruled by their immediate feelings, they've been trained without the ability to self-regulate their feelings and wants. Whatever feels good in the moment is the answer. Whatever seems to serve themselves in their head, is the solution. The real reason why you cannot have a debate with a liberal with any hope of changing their mind, is examples in Hitchens last minute of the video. The second they hear something that doesn't fit their personal narrative, they respond with emotion and are so controlled by it that they are unable to unlock any region of logic for calm debate. They use an emotional response, every time.

We must learn that debate, logic, proofs, and other methods will never work. What persuades us, will NEVER persuade them. At this point, it is an Us vs. Them situation. The longer that people take to understand this, the more ground we'll lose, and the more difficult it will become to preserve not just our Republic, but the ability to exist in this world with our own beliefs, religions, and freedoms. The battle right now is absolutely the battle of good and evil. The sooner the lukewarm middle ground wake up and start fighting for keeps, the less painful this will be.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.rikrlandvs.com
 
Posts: 13988 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
blame canada
Picture of AKSuperDually
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
GO fuck myself??? Am I not entitled to my opinion? And when I made that statement I wasn't just talking about firearms. You may love Trump and that's fine I may be completely wrong in my beliefs about him but at least I'm man enough to admit it. I don't have to resort to vulgar language just because someone doen't fell the same way I do.

Entitled? No. What public school indoctrinated bullshit have you swallowed?

You certainly sound very, "entitled."

Stop with your feelings. Just like getting butthurt over a common phrase, and the spewed nonsense you threw out that brought it.

Pale Horse's response to your emotional ridiculousness was spot on.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The trouble with our Liberal friends...is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." Ronald Reagan, 1964
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon will just take a shit on the board, strut around knocking over all the pieces and act like it won.. and in some cases it will insult you at the same time." DevlDogs55, 2014 Big Grin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.rikrlandvs.com
 
Posts: 13988 | Location: On the mouth of the great Kenai River | Registered: June 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Leatherneck
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
You don't think Trump wanted/wants to control others and just look at his followers. They are the definition of controlled. They believe everything he says, most of which he makes up as he goes alon


Oh go fuck yourself with that. When Trump banned bump stocks there was plenty of his supporters who were vocal about the lunacy of that. Same with his mention of suppressors and when he seemingly gave support for red flag laws. In addition he had recently been boo’d on multiple occasions for supporting the vaccine.

There have been multiple things Trump has said and done that draw criticism from his supporters.
GO fuck myself??? Am I not entitled to my opinion? And when I made that statement I wasn't just talking about firearms. You may love Trump and that's fine I may be completely wrong in my beliefs about him but at least I'm man enough to admit it. I don't have to resort to vulgar language just because someone doen't fell the same way I do.


I wasn’t talking about just firearms either. Maybe you missed the part about the vaccine. Yes I used a bad word. Don’t be so fragile and certainly don’t try and hide behind some holier-than-thou nonsense about you taking some high road when your post was clearly meant to be an insult of Trump and his supporters. And yeah, you can have an opinion but you being “entitled” to it doesn’t keep you free from criticism for it.




“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014
 
Posts: 15277 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
GO fuck myself??? Am I not entitled to my opinion? And when I made that statement I wasn't just talking about firearms. You may love Trump and that's fine I may be completely wrong in my beliefs about him but at least I'm man enough to admit it. I don't have to resort to vulgar language just because someone doen't fell the same way I do.

Entitled? No. What public school indoctrinated bullshit have you swallowed?

You certainly sound very, "entitled."

Stop with your feelings. Just like getting butthurt over a common phrase, and the spewed nonsense you threw out that brought it.

Pale Horse's response to your emotional ridiculousness was spot on.
I can always tell when someone is losing a debate...they start swearing and calling names because they have nothing intelligent to say
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: December 10, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
always with a hat or sunscreen
Picture of bald1
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A troll or just delusional? Either way.....

And no, I won't waste my breath on debating you given this Mr. Forum Newcomer.



Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club!
USN (RET), COTEP #192
 
Posts: 16533 | Location: Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: June 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fire begets Fire
Picture of SIGnified
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
GO fuck myself??? Am I not entitled to my opinion? And when I made that statement I wasn't just talking about firearms. You may love Trump and that's fine I may be completely wrong in my beliefs about him but at least I'm man enough to admit it. I don't have to resort to vulgar language just because someone doen't fell the same way I do.

Entitled? No. What public school indoctrinated bullshit have you swallowed?

You certainly sound very, "entitled."

Stop with your feelings. Just like getting butthurt over a common phrase, and the spewed nonsense you threw out that brought it.

Pale Horse's response to your emotional ridiculousness was spot on.
I can always tell when someone is losing a debate...they start swearing and calling names because they have nothing intelligent to say



Ha ha ha ha ha - What fucking debate are you talking about?

You just dropped a big old stinky turd in the middle of our living room.


You’re new round here, huh … maybe listen and learn a little before pissing everyone off. Just my 0.02 pesos





"Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty."
~Robert A. Heinlein
 
Posts: 26758 | Location: dughouse | Registered: February 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned
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quote:
Originally posted by bald1:
A troll or just delusional? Either way.....

And no, I won't waste my breath on debating you given the above Mr. Forum Newcomer.
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: December 10, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
quote:
Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
quote:
Originally posted by daved1023:
GO fuck myself??? Am I not entitled to my opinion? And when I made that statement I wasn't just talking about firearms. You may love Trump and that's fine I may be completely wrong in my beliefs about him but at least I'm man enough to admit it. I don't have to resort to vulgar language just because someone doen't fell the same way I do.

Entitled? No. What public school indoctrinated bullshit have you swallowed?

You certainly sound very, "entitled."

Stop with your feelings. Just like getting butthurt over a common phrase, and the spewed nonsense you threw out that brought it.

Pale Horse's response to your emotional ridiculousness was spot on.
I can always tell when someone is losing a debate...they start swearing and calling names because they have nothing intelligent to say
Actually , I don't think he's losing ...
 
Posts: 4272 | Location: Down in Louisiana . | Registered: February 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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