quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

I get the impression that he gave the officers a fake name and ID. That’s a crime, right? I’m guessing, but it seems that an officer’s first step would be to verify the name and ID. What happens when that comes back false?

You really start diggin. When I was policing, if someone gave me a false name I just arrested them and that led to an arrest where you can search the guy bc of the arrest-that could turn up more info. Or you asked the judge to put a hold on the guy until he produces ID. I had a kid giving his brothers name (I knew the brother by face) so he got to ride a jail cell till mommy came to the magistrates to get him out.

Another time I was assisting on a traffic stop, a passenger gave the name of “Fred Anderson” a local car dealer (also on the tag bracket of the car in front of the stop). The officer took him into custody and transported him to the PD for prints-he was wanted for murder in NJ the day before. Still wearing the same clothes and had the gun on him, duct taped to his side under his armpit.

Most of the jail staff know the local criminals and they are a great tool when trying to id someone.

^^^That’s what I figured. Makes me wonder if it would have made any difference if he had been honest with his name and ID. I’d guess it wouldn’t stop the questions and he’d have tripped himself up at some other point.

On a side note, I bought my son’s car at Fred Anderson KIA of Greer SC.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
It looks like the family is very wealthy and ….their money comes from owning a series of health care facilities along with a country club etc.
Luigi is a 10% owner in the family empire…

https://x.com/Dialectiks/status/1866299066470289777

Really, 10%. Do you have a source for that?

He’s one of at least 37 grandchildren. The grandfather, who started with nothing, had 5 sons and 5 daughters. I find it hard to believe Luigi has 10%.

We are making assumptions that he or his parents are wealthy. They showed pictures of the $800,000 house he grew up in. Honestly, it looks like a normal house that might have been $200,000 20 years ago. He attended an expensive high school and an Ivy League University, but we have no idea how either were paid for. He could have been on scholarship for both. I’m serious, figure full price for both undergraduate and graduate school at U-Penn at $500,000 when he attended. The only people I know with a kid going to and Ivy League school live in a house just like that. They can’t afford full price, but their kid puts pucks in a net well.

quote:

Originally posted by stiab:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

I’m also wondering what the circumstances of the killer’s identification and arrest were, and specifically what the justification was for the search that recovered the gun and suppressor.

That's pretty straightforward: they have a legal right to ask for an ID, and he produced an obviously fake one, so he was arrested for that.

The police do have a legal right to ask for an ID, but you also have no obligation to produce it, unless it's a driver's license and you are driving. We are not yet at that point in this country. "Papers, please" is reminiscent of Nazi Germany. He voluntarily complied.
His mistake was showing the fake one.

I have flagged a couple of memes on FB. One was a pic of the dead CEO saying denied and the next frame was the shooter with Thanos glove snapping his fingers

FB says it meets their standards, nothing wrong with posting that they say

Obviously, the right answer is to not commit murder, which will cause the cops to not be looking for you. Leaving that aside, a couple of hypothetical questions:

In a situation like this, what happens if one declines to provide identification. I’m not immediately coming up with a particularly respectful way to do that, but suppose one said something like, “Respectfully, No.” And then when the officer attempts to engage in dialogue, either just does not respond, or responds that he is not willing to talk with the officer. Can the individual be detained on some sort of reasonable suspicion that he may have been the shooter?

Similar hypothetical, individual provides legit ID, then refuses to talk with the cops. Same question.

I have no knowledge of the correct answers and I live my life to ensure it never becomes more than a curiosity for me, but I am curious.

Search incident to lawful arrest. Once he busted out the fake ID, the subsequent search is lawful. IIRC my search and seizure class, the search is limited to the arrested persons "immediate curtilage". Or what is in his immediate grasp.

quote:

His mistake was showing the fake one.

Not only that, it was the same ID/name he used to check into the hostel in NYC. I presume the police were aware of that name...

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
"Papers, please" is reminiscent of Nazi Germany.

That was my point, and I guess I thought that more people were aware of the fact.

And yes, search incident to arrest is valid, but the arrest must be valid to start the process: Invalid arrest > invalid search > the probability that anything found during the search will not be admissible as evidence in court.

quote:

And yes, search incident to arrest is valid, but the arrest must be valid to start the process: Invalid arrest > invalid search > the probability that anything found during the search will not be admissible as evidence in court.

Yes, but he voluntarily produced a fake ID. Valid arrest.

Rookie Altoona police officer Tyler Frye took Mangione into custody after an employee and a customer at a McDonald's in Altoona thought he looked like the suspect on a wanted poster and called authorities.

When officers approached Mangione, who was wearing a mask and a beanie and working on a laptop in the back of the restaurant, and asked him to remove his face covering, they recognized him as the suspect wanted for questioning in Thompson's murder.

During that encounter, he allegedly handed over a fake ID, gave a phony name, and "became quiet and started to shake" when asked if he'd recently been to New York.

He was also allegedly in possession of writings criticizing the healthcare industry and a ghost gun similar to the one believed to have been used to kill Thompson.

Altoona police initially took Mangione into custody on charges unrelated to Thompson's murder – possession of an unlicensed firearm, providing false identification to police and forgery.

https://www.foxnews.com/live-n...e-updates-12-10-2024

I heard the cop who arrested him on Fox business. He said he knew right away it was him when he lowered his face diaper

Not sure about having a technicality about the (fake) ID or silencer charges, but wouldn't they have needed a warrant to open and read the manifesto even if it were in their possession?

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Yes, but he voluntarily produced a fake ID. Valid arrest.

Yes, he did, and the arrest was valid in accordance with usual legal precedent.

My comment was a general explanation for those who might not know that a search incident to an illegal/invalid arrest is also invalid. If some people believe that the police have the right to demand our “papers” whenever they want, they are probably not familiar with the evidentiary doctrine of the “Fruit of the poisonous tree” either.

I didn’t intend to suggest that the arrest and subsequent search were not valid in this particular case.

Edited to try to make it clearer.

And has anyone found photos of the suppressor that was recovered?

As another thing, I’m often fascinated by the criminal mind. On the one hand he was pretty sophisticated in committing the crime: identifying and locating his victim, wearing a mask most of the time, the 3D pistol and suppressor, a quick get away from the scene. And yet. Leaving DNA evidence all over the place, exposing his face at one point, keeping the gun and suppressor, not changing clothing. A smart guy, but not as smart as he probably thought he was.

What must have he been thinking when he realized that his face was all over the country? Did he have any idea what he would/should do if contacted by the police, or after he realized that he was going to get identified by someone who knew him, had he just resigned himself to his fate? Even then, though, he could have been better prepared to say, “Nope, not him. We just look alike.”

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

This guy is 26, that's about far end of the age-range when mental issues fully manifest themselves, we'll see what this guy's deal.

That is incorrect. Mental issues show up throughout life.

I just saw this:

[begin quote]
Luigi Mangione suffered a violent meltdown as he arrived at court after being arrested for the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

Mangione, 26, could be heard roaring about cops being 'completely out of touch' and 'insulting the intelligence of the American people' as he was bundled into court by a horde of sheriff's deputies for his extradition hearing.

The suspected murderer was clad in an orange jumpsuit and had to be restrained as he was brought in to face a judge at Blair County Courthouse in Altoona,
[end quote]
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...mpaign=1490&ito=1490

The death of the CEO will not affect the stock price. The bench at UNH is quite deep, and any decline should be viewed as a buying opportunity.

quote:

The suspected murderer was clad in an orange jumpsuit and had to be restrained as he was brought in to face a judge at Blair County Courthouse in Altoona,
[end quote]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't see anything that supports your position.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

This guy is 26, that's about far end of the age-range when mental issues fully manifest themselves, we'll see what this guy's deal.

That is incorrect. Mental issues show up throughout life.

Yes, and schizophrenia frequently manifests at about that age.

Schizophrenia is just ONE of the psychiatric diagnoses. You may want to do some research on the matter.
The average age of onset for major depressive disorder is between 35 and 40 years of age. Onset in early adulthood may be linked with more depressive episodes.

Got arrested at McDonalds? Sure chose one hell of a last freedom meal. What a fucking clown. Rot in jail bitch.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Schizophrenia is just ONE of the psychiatric diagnoses. You may want to do some research on the matter.
The average age of onset for major depressive disorder is between 35 and 40 years of age. Onset in early adulthood may be linked with more depressive episodes.

Have worked on a number of cases involving schizophrenia. It's complex and not fully understood. Cases I've seen onset is late teens to mid-20s. Often high IQ individuals and most experimented with LSD or similar drugs. Many were fixated on the CIA or back in the day George Bush. One guy was a card counter who played high end poker.

quote:

Originally posted by .38supersig:
Not sure about having a technicality about the (fake) ID or silencer charges, but wouldn't they have needed a warrant to open and read the manifesto even if it were in their possession?

Not if it was printed out and in the backpack with other items. It could have been seen/read on the open laptop in plain sight.....at which point, yes a search warrant would be needed to search the computer.