quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
I did my doctoral thesis on this very topic but focusing on PA and surrounding areas. I looked at motorcycle accident death rates 5 years before and after PA did away with helmet laws. In the first 3 years while he total number of accidents stayed relatively constant, motorcycle related accident death rates went up over 500%. Demographically the people dying in the largest numbers were men ages 40-60 with bikes that had displacements greater than 1000cc. Younger adults on sport bikes died at a much slower rate. Also something like 90% of unhelmeted deaths had alcohol or drugs involvement when compared to 35% in the helemeted group. People who routinely didn't wear helmets were much more likely to not have insurance.

I also wear a helmet when I ride...all the time every time

Dusty, when you did your thesis just curious about a few things,

How many registered Motorcycles were there in the area for the 5 or 10 years prior to the law change,

what was the accident rate PER registered motorcycle.

After the change, what was the next 5 or 10 years (whatever you could get) total Motorcycle registration numbers,

what was the accident rate per registered motorcycle after

Using the rate of change argument would be valid when comparing total miles/bikes to accidents, not simply a flat increase rate unless all other factors over that time period remain static.

What you typically find in studies of helmet vs no helmet is that they compare total fatalities before and after but no mention that the number of registered bikes doubled after the law was passed for example.

When comparing accident rates for helmeted riders and alcohol use it would be interesting to see what the accident rate is for automobiles using the same factors, ie is there a direct correlation between use of safety equipment and sobriety...

As to the argument of "costs to society", it's estimated that at any given time 12 to 15% of the cars on the road are uninsured, in some states over 25% of the AUTO drivers have no insurance.

Nonetheless, total auto accidents cost the society billions per year in premium hikes, medical expenses, property costs, insured or not the risk is spread among premium payments (remember not everyone pays into your pool) so until you 4 wheel cage drivers fix your multi billion dollar problems, you have no high horse to preach to motorcyclists about societal costs. The overall costs of autos exceeds motorcycle costs insured or not by billions.

I did look at motorcycle registrations and they went up about 19% but deaths from head trauma went up 500%. I also compared NY to PA through the same time frames and PA had about double the deaths. All other criteria were pretty close in numbers including registered bikes, number of accidents, etc... the terrain and climate is also similar.

When compared to cars the rate of death is of course very disproportionate. Motorcycles account for about 0.6% of all miles traveled in the US but account for 14% of all motor vehicle deaths.

As stated above I don't necessarily think that you should be mandated to wear a helmet, but I don't want to pay for it either. If you get stopped riding without insurance your bike should be impounded. Same as cars. Police are often to lax and just write a ticket. Anyone who has been hit or injured by an uninsured driver knows how much of a pain in the ass it is.

Dusty,

good to hear, but again, whats the number that makes up 500% increase from deaths of head trauma, are we talking 5, 500, 5000, 50000.

I agree with the not paying for others medical expenses, would you concur then that anyone driving a car that gets into an accident cannot get medical treatment unless they have insurance.

I don't see any conclusive data that all those head injury accidents cost the taxpayers anything significant, did you have any numbers on how many were uninsured. When this argument is made it's almost always done in a manner that insinuates that all motorcyclists that have accidents without helmets have no insurance.

Which we both know is an incorrect theory.

It sounds like the thesis was on motorcycles only, since you know the area, it would be interesting to see how many head trauma injuries occurred in the area, over time, any increase,

Not busting your balls but you did offer up some information, and in the quest to determine how bad the worlds economy is suffering and the obviously high costs to tax payers of health insurance which is solely the cost of helmet eschewing motorcyclists according to some folks, some more details would be beneficial.

I get highway/insurance stats once in a while. Motorcycle deaths, most common, are over 50, new or returning (had a long break) riders.

I'm ATGATT (all the gear all the time). Full modern armored suit, chest protector, back protector, full faced helmet, armored gloves and boots. The best I can afford. Top level kit. Only thing better that I don't have, is the Dainese/Alpinestars airbag suits. So far cost prohibitive.

Going down hurts, on the street or at the track, done both. You have to ask yourself, how much is your skin/bones/brain worth to you? I also only ride on weekends, and only out in the country where my most likely fall will be my own doing. I avoid cagers like the plague.

I've never ridden a motorcycle without a helmet and never will. Knew one guy who died (no helmet), another who went into a coma and had to have facial reconstructive surgery (no helmet). No helmet = dumb as rocks. It's just as bad (to me) as shooting without ears and practicing poor firearm safety. Riding without earplugs will also cause hearing loss due the wind noise.
But I see them out there every day, riding hogs, thinking they're cool with their little vests, insignia, and bandanas, no helmet. I pray to God they never go down because it will not be good. And thankfully I don't ride the same type of motorcycles so they don't influence my insurance rates.

In addition to my sportbikes I also have a 125cc scooter that I use at the track to make food/drink/bathroom runs. Even on that damn thing I wear a helmet.

I also agree with Dusty. No insurance and you are in the ER with head trauma and no helmet or ptrotective gear, DNR. You are writing checks you can't cash. Full insurance to cover everything in the event you go down with no helmet. Go for it, have a blast, but I still think you aren't real bright.

I've been riding 28 years now and have had enduro's, street bikes, etc..

I wear a full face helmet every time.

I do not believe anyone should have to wear one if they choose not to.

I usually wear an armored jacket, but have also enjoyed the t-shirt sunshine. I usually were gloves of some sort, but have also gone without. Motorcycle riding is inherently dangerous. You have to realize your ability to control the machine and that at any given time something out of your control may happen. Be it an animal crossing in front of you or a driver from behind the dangers are real.

So long as you are comfortable with the risk wear what you want.

Insurance is also your choice. Cover what you want.

Cheers~

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:

As stated above I don't necessarily think that you should be mandated to wear a helmet, but I don't want to pay for it either. If you get stopped riding without insurance your bike should be impounded. Same as cars.

I think this makes sense.

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Originally posted by Oldrider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqRcZR70Zhc

Nutnfancy, seriously?!?

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And PPGMD; I now suspect you've hit or caused a motorcyclist to go down. To me this explains your anal fixation on protecting us (riders) from you behind the wheel.

Really that is your conclusion. Awfully funny because I never posted that I was in favor of helmet laws, only pointing out the hypocrisy of a few of the biker beliefs exhibited in this thread.

TBH I don't care if bikers wear their helmets or not. The bikers that don't wear helmets, and it seems like a majority of them don't around here, are complete idiots.

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I am now done with this thread; nothing constructive is being accomplished except burning bandwidth. Go ahead and flame me to death.

Translation: I've dropped some inflammatory bullshit, and I'm just going to watch it burn.

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... or a driver from behind the dangers are real.

Amen Brother... still stiff some days from it.

This thread is edging towards the "lighten up Francis " point !

15 years as a Sheriff medic and I've seen them die with and without a helmet. I choose to always wear one. I wear an open 3/4 helmet just can't stand a full face one.

Life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness is what this Country was founded on. So my feelings are that if your 18 or older and riding without a helmet makes you happy then you should have the liberty to do it. I feel the same way about seatbelts.

Full face all the time since 1982. Love the wind, sun, and face protection. One high speed get off and got slammed on my face. If it hadn't have killed me, I'd be one ugly SOB if I hadn't had a full face on.