^^^^yup recent studies show a 21% reduction in cervical spine injuries with helmet use because the back of most helmets protect C1-C2 from impact.

quote:

Originally posted by shovelhead:
I wear a helmet though not required in Michigan. A lot of variables and dynamics in a motorcycle collision all factor in, so in my opinion wearing, the jury is still out on effectiveness.

Seat belt usage, different issue here. Deployment of air bags. Driver and passenger usage, the position of the body in relation to design of the "cushion area" when inflated is critical. If the body and head are in the wrong position during deployment the bag can actually cause more injury or death due to fractures of the neck and forcing the head into the windshield or the roof of the car.

When my daughters were teens I would lecture them about riding in cars with the then popular thing of putting their feet on the dash or out the window. Explaining how and what would happen did not make me popular but I was not out to win any popularity contests anyways.

I have pictures of a patient's full body scan shows multiple brutal femur and pelvic fractures from having her legs up on the dash during a head on collision.

quote:

Originally posted by the_sandman_454:
I do not believe it should be required, as I do not believe seat belts should be required, but there should be some provision in place should someone be injured who has insufficient insurance to recover any costs to the state for treatment should any be incurred directly caused by lack of helmet or seat belt.

Seat belts aren't just about injuries in accidents. They also keep you in your seat in a position to operate the car. Which means you have the potential to prevent secondary collisions after a minor first accident.

I rode with full helmet all the time.

I still don't think it should be mandatory adults should be able to have choices we know that with those choices there are risks and consequences.

"sigh"....the helmet use/helmet law topic......again.

The late Roger Hull summed it up many years ago when he said: "Helmet use is a safety issue. Helmet law is Politics."

Yes, I wear one. It's my choice.

For those wanting some computer time, google the history of the motorcycle helmet laws enacted in the mid to late '60's, when the feds strong armed states into applying helmet law, or lose Fed highway building monies.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
I did my doctoral thesis on this very topic but focusing on PA and surrounding areas. I looked at motorcycle accident death rates 5 years before and after PA did away with helmet laws. In the first 3 years while he total number of accidents stayed relatively constant, motorcycle related accident death rates went up over 500%. Demographically the people dying in the largest numbers were men ages 40-60 with bikes that had displacements greater than 1000cc. Younger adults on sport bikes died at a much slower rate. Also something like 90% of unhelmeted deaths had alcohol or drugs involvement when compared to 35% in the helemeted group. People who routinely didn't wear helmets were much more likely to not have insurance.

I also wear a helmet when I ride...all the time every time

Hmm...pretty strong evidence in support of the helmet.

If you wanna be a risk taker, ride a motorcycle.
If you don't care about your life or your loved ones, ride without a helmet.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

quote:

Originally posted by the_sandman_454:
I carry high enough medical coverage on my insurance to be legal to ride in Michigan without a helmet,

Interesting. I never knew some states were set up like that.

Florida is. If you carry a certain amount of medical insurance a helmet is optional.

quote:

I also wear a helmet when I ride...all the time every time

I voted Yes / No, for the same anti-nanny spirit as explained above. Still, I always rode with a helmet before it was the law, during the law and after the law made it optional again.
There will be times, almost always while doing work on the bike, where I will ride for a few hundred yards without one. That's it, and that has always been deserted areas/streets adjacent to a garage.

We have no tie in to medical insurance in Texas that I know of, but that is an interesting concept. I agree with the personal accountability referred to above.

I would think the risk a helmet poses is far outweighed by the potential benefit.

I've known people who refused to wear seatbelts because they knew of one person who became trapped in their car because of one. Still seems like deciding based on the rare exception to me.

I do agree about the risk of riding; that's why I don't own one currently. Still wouldn't mind getting another dirt bike though.

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
"sigh"....the helmet use/helmet law topic......again.

The late Roger Hull summed it up many years ago when he said: "Helmet use is a safety issue. Helmet law is Politics."

Yes, I wear one. It's my choice.

For those wanting some computer time, google the history of the motorcycle helmet laws enacted in the mid to late '60's, when the feds strong armed states into applying helmet law, or lose Fed highway building monies.

The late, great Roger Hull and I agree with him on this. I also always wear a helmet, helmet *laws* are politically easy to pass as we motorcycle riders are a minority.

A much more dangerous problem that affects others is distracted driving, cell phone use. In WV they put a "hands free devices only, while driving" law on the books but I don't know of anyone actually ticketed for it? I read the daily report and there are always people arrested for DUI but never cell phone. Must be extra incentives for arresting DUI... Fed funding?????

We have allowed bureaucrats to initiate regulations to protect you from yourself, this is just one example. I just wish they'd concentrate all effort and funding protecting us from others as government was originally intended. Once that's been completely accomplished *then* they can start on protecting us from ourself.

I haven't read every post, but I've been riding motorcycles since 1964 & I wear a helmet, boots, gloves & jacket, always. Maybe someday I'll get the hang of it & won't feel the need for all the safety gear, but until then I'll keep doing it this way.

“…everyone must ride a motorcycle for one year before getting a license to drive a 4 wheeler. I think being on 2 wheels may bring a sense awareness to serious drivers…”I also believe this.

"…first 3 years while the total number of accidents stayed relatively constant...” Did you note all the demographics? Age, experience?
And also “…people dying in the largest numbers were men ages 40-60 with bikes that had displacements greater than 1000cc…” Again; experienced riders or newbies?

“…It seems as though many people still forget that it is a privilege to drive a motorized vehicle on a public street or highway and as such the state has the right to tell you to wear a helmet or seat belt. As soon as the state of Mi. passed the no helmet needed rule my insurance did go up and I do not ride a bike. Tell me why I have to pay higher rates…” Because if motorcycle registration went up, there would be more accidents. By the way, check what the insurance companies count as “motorcycle accidents”. You may find staticians include bicycles, skateboards, roller skates. I’ll save you some time; yes they do. And classifying the state as controlling privilege is somewhat akin to gun control factions wanting to control gun ownership or CCW privileges, don’t you think?

“…I do think a rider course should be required however…” Best logic so far. Also, testing for a motorcycle license is a joke in our state. Get your license on a 125 cc street trail bike, then climb on your crotch rocket and run 175 mph?

“…I seriously doubt that wearing a helmet is going to make any difference to the outcome of a 70+ mph motorcycle accident, so wearing a helmet for injury prevention reasons only makes sense for low-speeds…” True. Most deaths will come from torso injuries at those speeds.

Let me qualify my answers and views stated above. I’m 68, I’ve rode almost all my life. It is dangerous. I do expect some asshat to injure me (It’s happened several times now) or end my life by pulling out in front of me, rear ending me or turning left in front of me. To be frank I do not look forward to dying at 90, in a bed wearing depends. Let me go enjoying my life. It is no concern of yours OR Big Government.

I will absolutely always wear a helmet. No matter what. I see not a single reason to do otherwise and think there is something mentally wrong with you if you dont. I feel it should be required as well. I dont need to come up and see your brains smashed all over the pavement or against my windshield. Pay enough for insurance as it is. If you could guarantee there was no impact to me and my family because of your stupid decisions, then fine... dont care if its required or not. But that doesnt seem to be the case.

I wear all my other gear as well.

I cringe when I see someone not wearing proper riding gear.

Ive been involved in a motorcycle accident where I would be dead without a helmet on. I have witnessed multiple other accidents where their helmet saved their lives or at a minimum left their faces intact and in once piece.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldrider:
“…everyone must ride a motorcycle for one year before getting a license to drive a 4 wheeler. I think being on 2 wheels may bring a sense awareness to serious drivers…”I also believe this.

So others must put their lives at risk because a small minority choose to ride something more dangerous than everyone else. And yet the same crew argues that they should have the right to choose not to wear a helmet.

What about the general public's desire to never have to ride something so dangerous? Shouldn't they have the right to choose as well? Because you are talking about of both sides of your mouth here.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:
I did my doctoral thesis on this very topic but focusing on PA and surrounding areas. I looked at motorcycle accident death rates 5 years before and after PA did away with helmet laws. In the first 3 years while he total number of accidents stayed relatively constant, motorcycle related accident death rates went up over 500%. Demographically the people dying in the largest numbers were men ages 40-60 with bikes that had displacements greater than 1000cc. Younger adults on sport bikes died at a much slower rate. Also something like 90% of unhelmeted deaths had alcohol or drugs involvement when compared to 35% in the helemeted group. People who routinely didn't wear helmets were much more likely to not have insurance.

I also wear a helmet when I ride...all the time every time

Dusty, when you did your thesis just curious about a few things,

How many registered Motorcycles were there in the area for the 5 or 10 years prior to the law change,

what was the accident rate PER registered motorcycle.

After the change, what was the next 5 or 10 years (whatever you could get) total Motorcycle registration numbers,

what was the accident rate per registered motorcycle after

Using the rate of change argument would be valid when comparing total miles/bikes to accidents, not simply a flat increase rate unless all other factors over that time period remain static.

What you typically find in studies of helmet vs no helmet is that they compare total fatalities before and after but no mention that the number of registered bikes doubled after the law was passed for example.

When comparing accident rates for helmeted riders and alcohol use it would be interesting to see what the accident rate is for automobiles using the same factors, ie is there a direct correlation between use of safety equipment and sobriety...

As to the argument of "costs to society", it's estimated that at any given time 12 to 15% of the cars on the road are uninsured, in some states over 25% of the AUTO drivers have no insurance.

Nonetheless, total auto accidents cost the society billions per year in premium hikes, medical expenses, property costs, insured or not the risk is spread among premium payments (remember not everyone pays into your pool) so until you 4 wheel cage drivers fix your multi billion dollar problems, you have no high horse to preach to motorcyclists about societal costs. The overall costs of autos exceeds motorcycle costs insured or not by billions.

quote:

Originally posted by Oldrider:

“…I do think a rider course should be required however…” Best logic so far. Also, testing for a motorcycle license is a joke in our state. Get your license on a 125 cc street trail bike, then climb on your crotch rocket and run 175 mph?

It's silly here too. You could pass it easily on a moped and then go hop on Road King.

quote:

Originally posted by lude4life:
I cringe when I see someone not wearing proper riding gear.

Two summers ago I was riding down to Missoula one day to get some work done on my Heritage. I was cruising along about 60MPH and this fella came screaming by me on a crotch rocket wearing shorts, a tank top, and sandals. Nothing else.

All I could do was shake my head and think, "Dumbass".

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by lude4life:
I cringe when I see someone not wearing proper riding gear.

Two summers ago I was riding down to Missoula one day to get some work done on my Heritage. I was cruising along about 60MPH and this fella came screaming by me on a crotch rocket wearing shorts, a tank top, and sandals. Nothing else.

All I could do was shake my head and think, "Dumbass".

We call them squids because that is what they look like when they wreck, red from blood with limbs at odd angles.

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by Oldrider:
“…everyone must ride a motorcycle for one year before getting a license to drive a 4 wheeler. I think being on 2 wheels may bring a sense awareness to serious drivers…”I also believe this.

So others must put their lives at risk because a small minority choose to ride something more dangerous than everyone else. And yet the same crew argues that they should have the right to choose not to wear a helmet.

What about the general public's desire to never have to ride something so dangerous? Shouldn't they have the right to choose as well? Because you are talking about of both sides of your mouth here.

Good argument. But what was trying to be said is most car drivers do not allow the attention or legal road space that is required and due a motorcycle in the first place. They're too busy putting lipstick on, or yammering on a cell phone, or picking their nose to observe traffic and conditions. You may recognize these drivers as the ones who rear-ended you in your car, or side-swiped you because they couldn't control their car. And could care less.
By the way, it is true that experience operating a motorcycle WILL make you a more safety-conscience driver.