quote:

Originally posted by Crom:

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:

quote:

Originally posted by Crom:

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
For all you no helmet fans, I have a test for you. ... I saw a shirtless guy get hit by cicadas and lose control of his HD. Last summer.

That is a powerful argument; but I have actually never heard of that happening, nor has anything similar happened to me. Are there really credible statistics on "the probability of losing control of a motorcycle due to road debris and subsequently causing injury to someone else" ? I would really like to know.

I have seen 2 bird strikes and the cicada incident personally. Pulled two of my fellow truckers out of vehicles they lost control of due to no seatbelt. Got thrown out of their seats.

When I got my driver trainer certification in Europe they could not believe the no helmet laws we have, first thing they said was how it could lead to loss of control. And they do not have half the trash we do on the road. I have lost 6 windshield in 10 years. One time a bolt half as big as my fist went thru my passenger windshield. We had a trainee in Florida get hit by a shovel that went thru the windshield.

I am confused. You are citing examples of TRUCKS losing control due to bird/debris strikes ?

But we don't make truckers wear helmets.
???

Nope, the birdstrikes and cicadas were both motorcyclists that I personally witnessed.

Sorry I was a little confusing in how I was trying to show examples of foreign objests striking motorists or no seatbelts causing loss of control of vehicle. I personally wear full gear and proper boots because its not just for your protection they help you maintain control of your vehicle. With some of the stuff I have seen fall off vehicles I have contemplated wearing a helmet inside the truck.

As said I spent alot of time operating bikes, cars, and tractor trailers in Europe and while you do not have the freedom of no helmets you do have the freedom of no speed limits on certain stretches of the autobahn.

When I first came back stateside I instructed Commercial vehicles for the first year and realized it is damn near impossible to teach anyone anything, during training yes sir and perfect behavior.
Passed tests and then right back to I know better attitude,its all about me attitude until first accident or incident.

Sorry for rambling, I have just seen alot of stupid crap, 100,000+ miles per year over 37 years.
Personally I care for my fellow motorists and I going to do everything I can to maintain control of whatever I am operating so that it does not injure someone else.

If you ride in the states you are a braver person than I am because as several people have stated above you get the feeling they are trying to kill you. People say its because bikes are hard to see, hell half these dumbasses dont see me in a white and chrome Mack truck.

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
I have contemplated wearing a helmet inside the truck.

I see what you're trying to say in your argument, but really? Is this a serious statement? Honestly, I'd have to laugh if I saw this.

We could always go overboard with safety in any situation, but it seems that there is typically a level of risk that we choose to accept.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:

I seriously doubt that wearing a helmet is going to make any difference to the outcome of a 70+ mph motorcycle accident, so wearing a helmet for injury prevention reasons only makes sense for low-speeds.

Oh, not entirely true.

If the fall down results in a long slide/roll (without encountering an immovable object ( such as a vehicle, tree, Armco rail, guard wall, etc.), a helmet can be VERY protective in 70+ mph incidents.

Former rider here. Yes, I believe in always wearing your skid lid. No, I don't believe in helmet laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty78:

TBI patients are very costly. the way I see it if you don't want to wear a helmet fine...but if you don't have healthcare or motorcycle insurance coverage (or not covered by other parties involved) you should be an automatic DNR.

Thank God you aren't in charge of anything.

quote:

Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:

quote:

Originally posted by fischtown7:
I have contemplated wearing a helmet inside the truck.

I see what you're trying to say in your argument, but really? Is this a serious statement? Honestly, I'd have to laugh if I saw this.

We could always go overboard with safety in any situation, but it seems that there is typically a level of risk that we choose to accept.

Yes partially in jest, did cross my mind when I lost my passenger side windshield. Can we prevent everything nope. That is why FMCSA classifies preventable and non preventable on accident reports.

The libertarian in me says let adults make their own decision on what risks they want to take. Just don't ask me to pay your medical bills if you don't carry enough insurance.

I'm an ATGATT rider, All The Gear, All The Time.

Wow just wow, freedom from regulation gun owners arguing over why there should be mandatory bike gear laws determining the how when, where, and type of use something to be governed by more laws, and if you have an accident you get to die.

WTF is wrong with you guys, if this was a discussion about firearms, carry, rights you'd be backing the "no new laws" and "right to keep and bear arms" mantra. (Odds are 3/2 that will get the stupid motorcycles are not a constitutional right response)

I'm talking about attitudes about freedom of choice,

How Ironic that a some of our gun loving community, who's hobby/lifestyle has been threatened by the government and who fight against overbearing laws on the use and carry of firearms can actually post some of the things they have about needing laws on when you can do something, what you have to wear, and even, if you don't do it the way I like, you should DRT.

Or in turn basically claim someone suggesting that everyone should have to spend some time on a motorcycle is some kind of uber neo socailist oppressive law making democrat, when for their past 5 posts have continually berated the hobby being discussed, its participants and all the while lobbied for more rules, laws as mandated gear laws.

Seriously?

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
Prove it. That's the NHTSA feeding you crap. A motorcycle helmet never prevented a motorcycle related accident. PREVENTION is the safety net for bikers, not helmet law.

Wow you are completely ignoring your hypocrisy (which was my point) and focusing in on something I never said. I said and I quote.

quote:

Helmets and proper riding gear are statistically proven to reduce motorcycle deaths and injuries.

I said reduce injuries not accidents. And like with preventing STDs, not getting into the situation is the best way to not get injured. But just like other forms of aggressive driving it is harder to regulate, OTOH making bikers wear helmets is something that even a cop passing by can see or not. So even though you can't prevent the accident, you can lower the rate of major injuries when it happens. Just like a seat belt or air bags.

Personally I don't give a fuck if bikers wear helmets or riding gear or not. It is their life, but I can also see the other side that due to a biker making poor choices the people shouldn't have to pay for biker's poor choices because we have shared responsibilities through insurance and hospitals treating people without payment.

Damn it man, you are spinning the same shit that I've read/heard for the past 40 some years. You are some one who never has or will ride a motorcycle, but loves to preach about motorcycle injuries and it's effects on medical costs.

PLEASE come up with FRESH facts, or butt the fuck out of Bikers lives.

You want to take on responsibility for excess medical costs due to bad behavior? Go after the food industry. Go after the Tobacco industry or go after the medical profession.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Or in turn basically claim someone suggesting that everyone should have to spend some time on a motorcycle is some kind of uber neo socailist oppressive law making democrat, when for their past 5 posts have continually berated the hobby being discussed, its participants and all the while lobbied for more rules, laws as mandated gear laws.

Seriously?

You are pretty clearly referring to me. I want you to quote where I advocated for helmet laws? You will note that I didn't.

I was posting on the hypocrisy that the same people that say that everyone should be forced to ride a motorcycle are also against helmet laws because it should be a choice.

And when I made that point one of these hypocrites made the claim that it would save lives, to which I pointed out so would the helmet laws that they oppose, so you can't use that argument.

And yes they are acting like Democrats, freedom for me (no helmet laws), but not for you (forced motorcycle riding for a year to get a license).

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
Damn it man, you are spinning the same shit that I've read/heard for the past 40 some years. You are some one who never has or will ride a motorcycle, but loves to preach about motorcycle injuries and it's effects on medical costs.

PLEASE come up with FRESH facts, or butt the fuck out of Bikers lives.

Again, I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR HELMET LAWS, though like most intelligent people I can see why others would want them. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy that YOU and several other posters have. In that you want to have a choice on if you want to wear a helmet or not. But at the same time you want to remove the choices from others by requiring that people have to buy a bike and ride it for a year in order to get a license. That is pure hypocrisy.

But you seem to want to ignore that, and jump into straw man arguments.

You either support your idea of riding a bike for a year to get a license and you support helmet laws. Or you believe in choice and oppose both. You can't support both without being a big hypocrite.

So which are you in favor of, the laws, having a choice, or are you a big hypocrite?

quote:

You are pretty clearly referring to me. I want you to quote where I advocated for helmet laws? You will note that I didn't.

Interesting that I didn't name anyone, on purpose, as there are many in that camp not just you, however you felt it was directed at you, which it wasn't, but you felt the need to defend yourself.

quote:

But at the same time you want to remove the choices from others by requiring that people have to buy a bike and ride it for a year in order to get a license. That is pure hypocrisy.

It was a JOKE Son, that seasoned bikers have passed around for many years. A joke we passed around at camp sites over a few Beers.

And, you were sucked in.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Interesting that I didn't name anyone, on purpose, as there are many in that camp not just you, however you felt it was directed at you, which it wasn't, but you felt the need to defend yourself.

Oh don't give me that passive aggressive "I wasn't referring to you, but if you feel you need to defend yourself." I was the only one to refer to them a Democrats, it was clearly aimed at me.

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:

quote:

But at the same time you want to remove the choices from others by requiring that people have to buy a bike and ride it for a year in order to get a license. That is pure hypocrisy.

It was a JOKE Son, that seasoned bikers have passed around for many years. A joke we passed around at camp sites over a few Beers.

And, you were sucked in.

Uh huh right, a joke.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Wow just wow, freedom from regulation gun owners arguing over why there should be mandatory bike gear laws determining the how when, where, and type of use something to be governed by more laws, and if you have an accident you get to die.

WTF is wrong with you guys, if this was a discussion about firearms, carry, rights you'd be backing the "no new laws" and "right to keep and bear arms" mantra. (Odds are 3/2 that will get the stupid motorcycles are not a constitutional right response)

I'm talking about attitudes about freedom of choice,

How Ironic that a some of our gun loving community, who's hobby/lifestyle has been threatened by the government and who fight against overbearing laws on the use and carry of firearms can actually post some of the things they have about needing laws on when you can do something, what you have to wear, and even, if you don't do it the way I like, you should DRT.

Or in turn basically claim someone suggesting that everyone should have to spend some time on a motorcycle is some kind of uber neo socailist oppressive law making democrat, when for their past 5 posts have continually berated the hobby being discussed, its participants and all the while lobbied for more rules, laws as mandated gear laws.

Seriously?

Like I said- interesting.

I came across this image today on social media and immediately thought of this thread. Imagine if the rider didn't have a helmet on.

Take it with a grain of salt, but for what it's worth, from a guy who spent a good portion of his life in the industry - I believe that picture to be fake.

Not photoshopped, mind you, but damaged in that manner on purpose.

I'm not "Alex", but I think he's spot on: The 'bus crash' helmet

As an aside, it's also the first result if you google "fake damaged helmet".

From my own interactions with terra firma after becoming dislocated from motorized transit, I will say the damage shown is inconsistent with what can be expected from a survivable crash.

I am confident that EMTs and first responders who have been in close contact with post-accident helmets would agree with my assessment.

Bionic218, you are right. It would be difficult to sustain all the damage in one area. A motorcycle crash would typically see damage to multiple areas as the rider rolls, flips etc. even grinding away on the road will not isolate all the damage to one specific area typically.

There was a MotoGP clip from last year where a GP rider fell off and the onboard camera picked up the foot peg being completely ground down by the road in a few seconds. It was a neat clip.

For all you who wish to force a plastic bucket on everyone, let me further add to your morning indigestion.
Several states now have bills in legislation or even waiting for a governor's signature to legalize lane splitting. Take a peek...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqRcZR70Zhc
I'd never considerate it, but eventually it's coming.
And PPGMD; I now suspect you've hit or caused a motorcyclist to go down. To me this explains your anal fixation on protecting us (riders) from you behind the wheel.

I am now done with this thread; nothing constructive is being accomplished except burning bandwidth. Go ahead and flame me to death.

I don't think the govt has any business forcing you to wear a helmet.
I do think you're a dumbass if you don't.

Young men dying from head injuries make great organ donors, yes that is my true feeling on the matter.

To the above picture, I watched my best friend dump a ZX900 while riding a wheelie on the freeway. He slid across the pavement quite a ways, hit the grass on the shoulder. The sudden deceleration launched his bike and then him into the air. His helmet had a gouge in it, but it was more on the side/visor area. That picture looks like total bullshit.

He walked away from that accident. A very lucky man indeed.