quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:
highest non-combat Navy award would be the "Navy and Marine Corps Medal" - Navy version of the Soldier's or Airman's Medal.

Which doesn't mean that they can't still name a ship after him...

What feerum says.

MOH, Navy Cross, Silver Star, are all combat awards only.

A Bronze Star can be meritorious (so the Staffs can feel good and get one), but it is still below the Navy and Marine Corps Medal.


"CRITERIA for Navy and Marine Corps Medal:

Distinguishing oneself by heroism not involving actual conflict with an enemy. For acts of lifesaving, or attempted lifesaving, it is required that the action be performed at the risk of one's own life "

The Navy and Marine Corps Medal is above the Bronze Star but below the Silver Star in order of Precedence.

Only 23 times has the Navy and Marine Corps Medal been awarded since the medal was established by an act of Congress on 7 August 1942.

Most notable recipients:
John F. Kennedy, USN - President of the United States who was awarded the medal as commanding officer of Motor Torpedo Boat PT-109 during World War II.
James E. Williams, USN - Medal of Honor recipient, Vietnam War
Another easily recognizable recipient was Carl Brashear

Could the Fitzgerald have been trying to hide within the radar/sonar envelope of the Crystal?

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
Could the Fitzgerald have been trying to hide within the radar/sonar envelope of the Crystal?

Why would they NEED to?

No.

quote:

Originally posted by mr kablammo:
Could the Fitzgerald have been trying to hide within the radar/sonar envelope of the Crystal?

No. Don't think that would even be possible. Even if trying really really REALLY hard to fathom that possibility and the threat level that would warrant even a consideration, the ship would have been at general quarters with the captain on the bridge and no one in their rack.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenInWV:
Question: the pics I've seen, the damage looks way above the waterline. What am I missing when they're talking about flooded compartments?

If you look at one of the pics of the freighter bow. Most all modern freighters have a bulbous bow (which is a bulb shaped part of the hull) which is partially exposed at the waterline and under it, it usually sticks out as far forward as the tip of the bow. When the freighter is fully loaded, the bulbous bow is usually 6-10' below the waterline. That hit the hull of the destroyer under the waterline and tore it apart in a few compartments, much like the costa concordia damage from the rock.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-57mK...t0/s1600/Bulbous.JPG

I have been trying to get a good pic of the bottom of the bow.

Found this:




Not sure if there is anything else below that visible part.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

No SDY, nothing else below that visible bulbous bow. BUT when the ship is loaded with cargo and/or ballast that entire bulb will be below the water's surface.

I may get some fundamental things wrong here, but I'll ask the question.

From reading about AIS and Marine Traffic it sounds like AIS is widely used especially on large ships.

Comments have been made that U.S. Navy doesn't like to use AIS because it gives away their position. That is a very reasonable concern.

But from what I read over the last day or two, a platform w AIS can transmit its data to other AIS platforms. Ranges up to 15 to 20 miles are indicated if the antenna is high enough.

U.S. Navy could benefit by using AIS in a receive only mode. The Navy ship would not put its data out for others to see. (might require AIS transponder special customization)

But a small plot, either independent or integrated w an existing display, could show the AIS data.

A range filter on the AIS data could limit it to only those platforms within some number of miles.

The existing AIS allows a forecast feature so the plot would show for the displayed contacts where that platform was going to go at its' instantaneous course/speed. Forecast time length is adjustable.

Class A transponders transmit data every 6 seconds for ship speeds 14-23 knots.

every 2 seconds for speeds 14-23 knots and changing course

This would be a supplement rather than a replacement of existing sensor inputs.

It wouldn't take much to add "closest point of approach" calculators with visual or audio alarms for collision dangers.

The issue of "operator overload" is a real one. This AIS data would need to be available w/o adding confusion.

Make any sense ?

The Navy does use AIS in a recieve only mode. They can transmit their info as well, but rarely do.

AIS isn't just for a 40 mile range, you can pay a premium on marine traffic and see ships out of range all over the world too.

?? are you saying DDG 62 CIC had Crystal AIS data every couple sec ?

The question then becomes, where is the data displayed and who is the operator monitoring it.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
?? are you saying DDG 62 CIC had Crystal AIS data every couple sec ?

The question then becomes, where is the data displayed and who is the operator monitoring it.

Yes, they all have AIS recievers and transmitters but usually have the transmitter turned off so the world doesn't know.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
?? are you saying DDG 62 CIC had Crystal AIS data every couple sec ?

The question then becomes, where is the data displayed and who is the operator monitoring it.

I would think that the Combat Information Center with the radar watch would have it, and would expect a radar repeater on the bridge with it available for convenient reference.

In my day, there would be a transparent lighted board on the bridge listing every active contact kept up to date by a non rated watch stander with a grease pencil and sound powered phones to CIC. AIS was not yet thought of. The deck was steel, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobbs:
Only 23 times has the Navy and Marine Corps Medal been awarded since the medal was established by an act of Congress on 7 August 1942.

I think that has changed.

http://valor.militarytimes.com/search.php?medal=19

Good find. Thanks RHINOWSO

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
Finally I am seeing more than just DailyMail pick up on this story.

It would appear that one of the 7 deceased, Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Rehm Jr had ample time to escape and save himself, instead he continued to go back for his shipmates and may have saved up to 20 before he was ultimately trapped when fellow sailors were forced to contain the water before he was able to return for the final time.

Assuming these reports turn out to be accurate, my God, what a courageous young man. I would hope that ultimately the Navy finds a way to permanently honor him in some way.

The British have two medals that are equivalent to each other (and to the Medal of Honor) but for slightly different actions. The Victoria Cross for combat heroism and the George Cross for similar valor in a non-combat situation. Perhaps it's time to have a similar medal in the US.

The impact not only ripped a hole in the steel superstructure in the stateroom but also shifted the contents and shape of the steel so Benson (Captain) was “squeezed out the hull and was outside the skin of the ship,” a sailor familiar with the damage to the ship told USNI News. “He’s lucky to be alive.”

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/...ss-call-reached-help

Some reason I'm unable to post from hosting site but, click on the link and check out the photo..then check out an outside photo. Jeesh! Puts what you're looking at into perspective.

quote:

When the Fitzgerald collided with the merchant ship, 37-year-old Fire Controlman 1st Class Gary Leo Rehm Jr., "leapt into action," according to The Daily Beast.

The Fitzgerald was struck below the waterline, and Rehm Jr.'s family was told by the Navy that he went under and saved at least 20 sailors, according to WBNS-10TV in Columbus, Ohio.

Truly an amazing man! He deserves the highest award we have for heroism. At minimum, name a new fighting ship after him!

And as another post said, think about the guys that had to give the order to close the hatch, and then the one who had to close it.

May God bless all who perished, as well as those who have to deal with sealing those who drowned in those compartments! Those guys will probably need some counseling.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The impact not only ripped a hole in the steel superstructure in the stateroom but also shifted the contents and shape of the steel so Benson (Captain) was “squeezed out the hull and was outside the skin of the ship,” a sailor familiar with the damage to the ship told USNI News. “He’s lucky to be alive.”

https://news.usni.org/2017/06/...ss-call-reached-help

Some reason I'm unable to post from hosting site but, click on the link and check out the photo..then check out an outside photo. Jeesh! Puts what you're looking at into perspective.

Wow, the Captain really is lucky to be alive.

quote:

Fitzgerald sailors had to bend back the door of the stateroom to pluck Benson from the side of the ship and bring him inside. He and two other sailors were later evacuated from the ship via a Japanese helicopter to a Navy hospital at Yokosuka.

Pictures of Benson’s stateroom from the door show the steel bent back to reveal open air, and a photo of the ship’s exterior pier-side shows almost the entire stateroom was crushed.

Meanwhile, below decks, the glancing blow of Crystal’s bulbous bow had ripped a 10-feet-by-10-feet to 14-feet-by-14-feet hole below the waterline of the ship, flooding a machinery space the berthing area that was home to about half of the crew, the sailor said.
Over the weekend, U.S. 7th Fleet commander Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin confirmed the spaces that were affected by the collision.
...
As for the ship, five days after collision active damage control efforts are ongoing to prevent further damage to the hull. The force of Crystal’s impact combined with the flood not only dented but twisted the ship’s hull. Crews are continuing to pump water in and out of the ship to keep Fitzgerald stable.

I'm still very impressed with the job those sailors did to save that ship. Those guys had to go from 0 to 100 mph in a blink of an eye, all while thousands (tens of thousands) of gallons of water per minute were pouring into the ship. Incredible.