quote:

I believe that "Drop your weapon"is deeply ingrained in automatic police response.

Just like "quit resisting" as they fight with a suspect.

quote:

Originally posted by MagnumU:
First, thoughts and prayers for all those injured by the assailant. Second, no criticism of the officers involved. I have never been in that situation, and hope never to be.

My concern is with the reports of a "Drop your weapon" command when dealing with an active shooter. Is this part of Capitol Police training or general police training? It makes no sense to me when you have an active shooter. Seems like it poses unjustifiable risks to the officer and anyone in the field of fire.

I believe that can likely be chalked up to training scars. They probably regularly train by saying that phrase before opening fire. Under stress, most people revert back to training (as is proper). Not a big issue, in my mind. I suspect the time gap between "drop your weapon" and "BANG BANG BANG" was very minimal.

Soooo, from Illinois. 12 hour road trip.

That's what I would hope as well, thumperfbc. If it is instead a step in the process of responding to an active shooter it could end up hurting the good guys.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

I believe that "Drop your weapon"is deeply ingrained in automatic police response.

Just like "quit resisting" as they fight with a suspect.

Yep, this.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

I believe that "Drop your weapon"is deeply ingrained in automatic police response.

Just like "quit resisting" as they fight with a suspect.

Yep, this.

A man walking his dog at a park near the field told Fox News he heard police yelling at the gunman to put the gun down followed by someone in or around the dugout screaming back "Just shoot him."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017...ple-people-shot.html

bottom line, good guys (and gals) with guns stopped a bad guy with guns. This could have turned out very differently with no defense. Fish in a barrel... or dugout.
Instead of responding to the anti's pre programmed responses, it's us who shouldn't let this opportunity go to waste.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

What are you thinking?

Why are you posting something like this?

First, to criticize the shooters marksmanship, then to accuse a first responder of shooting themselves?

The hell is wrong with you? Please think before you post.

I agree the comment about the first responder was dumb.

Don't get your admonishment concerning my comment about an obviously unskilled shooter.

You'd prefer a trained marksman? Regardless of whether you understand, why do you think that comment is necessary?

The fact that there was a security detail is the primary reason things worked out the way they did. Shall we go through other scenarios where supposedly "inexperienced" shooters had minutes or more before there was armed response? There was significant loss of life in many of those cases.

Why we need to make crass comments in the immediate wake of an event like this, puzzles me.

Well kudos to the law enforcement that took the guy out, it's clear he had issues closed company, lost job, 66 years old, with his facebook open still are there no family members around asking FB to close it?

quote:

Originally posted by feersum dreadnaught:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

I believe that "Drop your weapon"is deeply ingrained in automatic police response.

Just like "quit resisting" as they fight with a suspect.

Yep, this.

A man walking his dog at a park near the field told Fox News he heard police yelling at the gunman to put the gun down followed by someone in or around the dugout screaming back "Just shoot him."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017...ple-people-shot.html

That doesn't mean that they had a shot. Article says that he was using the dugout as cover.

Jerry - very true. details come out without context, and the after-action report with who did what and when is a long ways out.

Honestly, I am amazed at the presence of mind to recognize, react and respond by law enforcement. I know they train - apparently the Capitol Police details train with the Secret Service, so are not just pulled out of the uniformed staff.

I understand reacting at the buzzer to put holes in paper. Not sure how training works to get one to react to scenario, draw and start firing at a live human. Probably easier when they are already shooting at other people, but there has to be a delay to process. And it must be really hard to do, when a live fire incident might not happen ever during your career.

Kudos to Officers Krystal Griner and David Bailey.

As is always the case in incidents like this it is far too early to know anything about the tactics the officers used, whether commands were appropriate, whether officers made good use of cover, whether they should have approached a man with a rifle when they had only handguns, etc., etc., etc. What we do know is that LEOs tend to be very conservative about their use of deadly force. It’s also dam’ difficult to go from zero to 60 in a situation like this and do everything just as the Monday morning quarterbacks think they should have done while sitting on the other side of the computer keyboard.

Well that's, ummm, helpful.

quote:

This could have turned out very differently with no defense. Fish in a barrel

Exactly. They were all lying as flat as could be, and one of the congressmen said that he was waiting for the shooter to walk up and shoot him point blank. Return fire changed the whole dynamic.

But apart from the specifics of this event, I have the feeling that things in America have changed for the much worse, and irretrievably. ("Captain Obvious," maybe.) No, not civil war, not only are we not slipping into civil war, but we are far from that. Right now. But this shooting of Republican congressmen, celebrated on social media, is a watershed.

I see how prescient Para was with his "cleaned my rifle" thread long ago.

Well, the only facist there is dead.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Well, the only facist there is dead.

A quote for the ages.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Well, the only facist there is dead.

Yep. He was also in a Facebook group called "Terminate the Republican Party"
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1415090015389620/

Facebook finally deactivated his account.

Well, I'll be....I'm old enough and cynical enough to be shocked that CNN and Newsweek have immediately identified the shooter as a Bernie supporter who's publicly backed impeaching Trump. In the old days I would've expected them to waffle, speculate, try to blame it on conservative talk radio and then insist he's insane once his politics became clear.

cite at http://www.yahoo.com/news/jame...eball-163455210.html

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
Facebook finally deactivated his account.

They didn't want the bad publicity.

So we just had a domestic terrorist attack and people are allowed to post things like the antifa group did? There is something wrong with that. This was a textbox terrorist attack/political assassination attempt.