quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:

The second big difference is that the feed lips are elongated on the Gen II magazines and (according to SIG SAUER) will not be backwards compatible with the Gen I guns. T]

I am confused by this statement. I interpret this as saying that the mags for a Gen 1 gun will not fit in a Gen II gun, and any mag made for a gen II gun will not fit in a gen 1 gun.

this really doesn't make sense to me, and than throws in the added complexity of the manufacturer having to make separate guns for both the Gen1's and Gen2 guns.

quote:

Originally posted by glocke12:

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:

The second big difference is that the feed lips are elongated on the Gen II magazines and (according to SIG SAUER) will not be backwards compatible with the Gen I guns. T]

I am confused by this statement. I interpret this as saying that the mags for a Gen 1 gun will not fit in a Gen II gun, and any mag made for a gen II gun will not fit in a gen 1 gun.

this really doesn't make sense to me, and than throws in the added complexity of the manufacturer having to make separate guns for both the Gen1's and Gen2 guns.

Last year when Sig started the charm offensive with us, and LDD received the great insider info, part of the pitch was Sig was doing a 180 on their QC and engineering. Sig was no longer a marketing firm selling guns. Sounded good. And I still hope the MPX is just a stumble here. But now learning those hard to obtain magazines are Gen1, and may not be compatible with Gen2 MPXs? Or Gen2s might not fit in Gen1 guns? So what is going to be available in a few years as the Gen1 guns will still be out there, but the Gen2s are the norm?

While most SigForum members will be savvy enough to know what is going on, what about the gun buyer who plunks down some serious coin, buys their MPX, and has serious issues when navigating Gen1, Gen2, and the random CS person at Sig who might not know that there was even a Gen1 MPX?

And just a thought, those who bought Gen1 knowing they will only shoot 9mm anyway, what happens when they want to buy the 4.5" 9mm barrel? Isn't that going to be Gen2, since the MPX-k is the start of the Gen2 guns? So the early adopter is either going to have to buy a new upper and mags (and hang on to the old Gen1 stuff for when the owner wants to shoot the 8" barrel) to use the the 4.5" barrel, or find a Gen1 barrel and get it cut down by a gunsmith. Sounds like a lot of work and added headaches to a system that should be a lot easier.

I hate to say this, but the MPX wasn't ready for primetime, and they released it too soon. Some of the issues we are seeing right now is proof that the gun needed more time testing.

I wanted to clarify the response that I received from SIG, so I reiterated the question to them... and they reiterated the response..



Ryan,

Would you clarify your response to the compensation that will be offered...

Will SIG offer us (Gen1) owners a COMPLETE Gen2 upper at the cost of a just a new Gen2 barrel?

On Nov 16, 2015 9:41 AM, "Ryan Gagneux" <Ryan.Gagneux@sigsauer.com> wrote:

That is what we are being told, yes.

quote:

Originally posted by armedjetflyer:
I wanted to clarify the response that I received from SIG, so I reiterated the question to them... and they reiterated the response..



Ryan,

Would you clarify your response to the compensation that will be offered...

Will SIG offer us (Gen1) owners a COMPLETE Gen2 upper at the cost of a just a new Gen2 barrel?

On Nov 16, 2015 9:41 AM, "Ryan Gagneux" <Ryan.Gagneux@sigsauer.com> wrote:

That is what we are being told, yes.

Thats good news.

What I'm confused about now is the magazines. From what I'm reading I'll have to use gen 2 mags for any other caliber, but the gen 1's will be backwards compatible with 9mm in the gen 2 upper...?

quote:

Originally posted by Andyb:

quote:

Originally posted by armedjetflyer:
I wanted to clarify the response that I received from SIG, so I reiterated the question to them... and they reiterated the response..



Ryan,

Would you clarify your response to the compensation that will be offered...

Will SIG offer us (Gen1) owners a COMPLETE Gen2 upper at the cost of a just a new Gen2 barrel?

On Nov 16, 2015 9:41 AM, "Ryan Gagneux" <Ryan.Gagneux@sigsauer.com> wrote:

That is what we are being told, yes.

Thats good news.

What I'm confused about now is the magazines. From what I'm reading I'll have to use gen 2 mags for any other caliber, but the gen 1's will be backwards compatible with 9mm in the gen 2 upper...?

I think the issue is the Gen 2 upper in 9mm is not compatible with the Gen 1 lower. Only the .40 cal and .357 Sig Gen 2 upper will fit on the Gen 1 lower. Huge problem if you went ahead and SBR'd the lower.

Magazine issue is an additional and needless problem imo. I have no faith they will support the Gen 1 going forward. Still haven't delivered the stocks and mags ordered in June.

Who's minding the store at SIG these days? What a cluster.

Where are you getting that from? Everything that has been posted thus far has stated Gen 2 uppers will fit Gen 1 lowers but that Gen 2 magazines will not work in Gen 1 lowers. So No, you are incorrect. Thus far unless something changes Gen 1guns are 9mm ONLY due to the fact that the multi-caliber magazines will not fit Gen 1 lowers.

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:
Where are you getting that from? Everything that has been posted thus far has stated Gen 2 uppers will fit Gen 1 lowers but that Gen 2 magazines will not work in Gen 1 lowers.

Whats the point then? Gen 2 magazines would be needed to run any other caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by Andyb:

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:
Where are you getting that from? Everything that has been posted thus far has stated Gen 2 uppers will fit Gen 1 lowers but that Gen 2 magazines will not work in Gen 1 lowers.

Whats the point then? Gen 2 magazines would be needed to run any other caliber.

That's what we've been saying. The only purpose for a Gen 2 9mm upper is for the guys that want the shorter barrel lengths. That's why Sig specifically stated earlier on that Gen 1 guns are 9mm only...

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:

quote:

Originally posted by Andyb:

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:
Where are you getting that from? Everything that has been posted thus far has stated Gen 2 uppers will fit Gen 1 lowers but that Gen 2 magazines will not work in Gen 1 lowers.

Whats the point then? Gen 2 magazines would be needed to run any other caliber.

That's why Sig specifically stated earlier on that Gen 1 guns are 9mm only...

You keep saying that, but I have in print that came with my gun that it is multi caliber. Shoot, the lower is marked multi, but in reality is only 9mm being it can only use gen 1 mags. I knew from being a member here about the gen 1 BS, but most do not. The gen 2 mags are a new development. You act like Sig handled this perfectly, when in reality they released a beta gun to their customer.

quote:

Originally posted by Ferrari Steve:
I'd also buy it at $750.

Like literally. If you pass, tell me where the seller is and I will buy another one for $750!

OK, so I ran across this offer on a forum where the potential seller does not appear to have a history. He is offering this MPX at what we all agree is a below-market price as well as an AR10, similarly below market. Both posts have been up for a couple weeks and the MPX is "still available". I have zero sense (via forum participation or feedback scores) of whether this guy is legit or someone looking to take my money.

As my Dad always said, a deal that is too good to be true is only too good to one party, and that usually aint you.

So last night I asked the potential seller to point me in the direction of a forum where he has a presence and a deal history. Where I can see his history and contact him via that forum. Here, arfcom, M4, a state board, anything. I would have a difficult time finding someone selling both a NIB MPX and AR10 not being a forum participant somewhere.

He's been relatively responsive to emails in the past but I have yet to hear from him, 12 hours later ....

Steve, you seem like a nice guy so not sure I want to point you in his direction if it smells of yesterday's bait...

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

Admittedly, this does get into a grey area. I knew that the first Gen1 MPXs were 9mm only and I tried to share that with everyone so they'd know what they were getting into.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that info before you purchased yours.

Technically, the lower is the firearm. Therefore the lower is caliber-marked. And your lower will accept the Gen2 upper, so the fact that it is marked multi-cal marked is not fraudulent.

When I approached SIG about this initially, they stated that owners of Gen1 guns would be able to buy Gen2 uppers at a discount.

Here's a post from July by LDD. Like I said previously...I researched this platform, I knew what I was getting in a Gen 1 gun...

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

Admittedly, this does get into a grey area. I knew that the first Gen1 MPXs were 9mm only and I tried to share that with everyone so they'd know what they were getting into.

I'm sorry if you didn't get that info before you purchased yours.

Technically, the lower is the firearm. Therefore the lower is caliber-marked. And your lower will accept the Gen2 upper, so the fact that it is marked multi-cal marked is not fraudulent.

When I approached SIG about this initially, they stated that owners of Gen1 guns would be able to buy Gen2 uppers at a discount.

Here's a post from July by LDD. Like I said previously...I researched this platform, I knew what I was getting in a Gen 1 gun...

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:
That's what we've been saying. The only purpose for a Gen 2 9mm upper is for the guys that want the shorter barrel lengths. That's why Sig specifically stated earlier on that Gen 1 guns are 9mm only...

You contradict yourself with that quote. LDD said they were 9mm only at the time, and the gen 2 upper would be all that is needed.

At the end of LDD's post "Technically, the lower is the firearm. Therefore the lower is caliber-marked. And your lower will accept the Gen2 upper, so the fact that it is marked multi-cal marked is not fraudulent."

That may have been true until they changed the magazine. The gen 1 lowers won't accept gen 2 mags, so they are entirely 9mm only, which is not multi caliber.

I guess you interpret that quote differently than I did. I take it to mean that since the different caliber uppers fit Gen 1 lowers they get away with saying they are multi-caliber. "Legalese" Not that they will actually work.

quote:

Originally posted by Faust245:
Where are you getting that from? Everything that has been posted thus far has stated Gen 2 uppers will fit Gen 1 lowers but that Gen 2 magazines will not work in Gen 1 lowers. So No, you are incorrect. Thus far unless something changes Gen 1guns are 9mm ONLY due to the fact that the multi-caliber magazines will not fit Gen 1 lowers.

I posed the question to SIG CS this morning. That's who gave me the answer. Only the .40 or .357 upper will fit the Gen 1 lower. The Gen 2 9mm upper doesn't fit the Gen 1 lower. I asked that question a couple of times because I was in disbelief. If I'm wrong then SIG CS is giving bad info out to the public.

I asked abour product support for the Gen 1. Barrels, Bolts, now mags. These are normal wear parts for high volume guns. He said they would still be made. I'm skeptical.

quote:

Originally posted by ctsheepdog:
OK, so I ran across this offer on a forum where the potential seller does not appear to have a history...

Yeah, I think your spider sense is tingling appropriately. Sounds too good to be true.

I remember someone stating the Gen1s were pushed early to meet a .gov contract somewhere. If true, then maybe the support will be there.

But sounds like civilians are going to get screwed. It's crap like this is why I have a deep forehead shaped dent in my desk. I've been drooling over the MPX since it was announced. But the half arsed execution and 'fixes' makes me glad I'm holding back.

Makes me want to take one of my mags up to the store here locally that has a Gen 2 in stock and compare, see what it fits like in the gun. Wonder if a "Gen 1" mag will work in a Gen 2 gun. Between the 5 mags and folding stock I picked up I'm kind of fed up with the whole MPX mess. I was really wanting to wait for a 4.5" Gen 2 but at this rate I may just dump everything.

I'll come back to considering an MPX in a year or two and see what the deal is. Maybe the MPX-K will be out by then.

In slightly less upsetting news, Sig has agreed to replace my lower with a new one. Hopefully they will get it out in the next few days.

quote:

Originally posted by Andyb:
In slightly less upsetting news, Sig has agreed to replace my lower with a new one. Hopefully they will get it out in the next few days.

Hopefully it will be a Gen2 gun, so you can do all the upgrades/modifications that was promised in the beginning.