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Originally posted by Anush:

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Yeah that happened in 2014 with Obama and the Crimea annex. Never stops.

+ Belarus, Venzuela, Hungary, Brazil, India, Slovakia, Nigeria & other central African countries. Now beginning in the rest of Geogia, Mongolia & many countries. Over a million Russians have escaped Putin. Putin is a homicidal madman who's control over Russians came gradually but is now absolute. Putin will not quit until he is eliminated.

The number of surrender monkeys on supposedly patriotic 2A-loving forums is surprising. Seeing the same people thumping their chests and talking tough about "ammo box" this and "civil war" that in one thread and then turning around and saying "oh, the Ukrainians should just give up" in another... Because dying with your hands tied behind your back as in Bucha, Izyum and countless other towns and villages on the occupied territory is so much better that dying on the battlefield? Makes one wonder what kind of choices that kind of tough guys would really make when the proverbial S hits the fan...

I'm not comparing anybody to Hitler, all dictators use the same tactics, I was just trying to make a point.

Similarly, Im not saying it's the US job to fix everything, Europe is terrible, always has been.

However you are the last superpower and everybody is watching your reaction to this - just don't give the MF any encouragement.

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
Yeah, because that always works when you give in to the demands of crazy dictators.

Are you talking about Putin or Zelensky?

I'm Polish, you figure it out.

We fought Ho Chi Minh to the tune of about 58,000+ American lives and about $110,000,000,000 - $352,000,000,000. The lives are priceless. At the time there were EXACTLY two communist countries in Southeast Asia and we fought the war to stop the red menace. As a reminder there are EXACTLY two communist countries today: Laos and Vietnam. Oh, Ukraine is just as or more corrupt than South Vietnam was. Ukraine fans, please tell me what you learned from the neocon experience in Vietnam and how Ukraine will be any different. I'm all ears.

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Originally posted by echidna:
The number of surrender monkeys on supposedly patriotic 2A-loving forums is surprising. Seeing the same people thumping their chests and talking tough about "ammo box" this and "civil war" that in one thread and then turning around and saying "oh, the Ukrainians should just give up" in another... Because dying with your hands tied behind your back as in Bucha, Izyum and countless other towns and villages on the occupied territory is so much better that dying on the battlefield? Makes one wonder what kind of choices that kind of tough guys would really make when the proverbial S hits the fan...

Beyond using us as an ATM, how many Ukrainians care about the United States and its current predicament?

You got a lot of balls, saying that those of us who would defend THEIR OWN COUNTRY are hypocrites. You are very confused. Let me put it to you in no uncertain terms:

The people- the TAXPAYERS of the United States owe the Ukraine NOTHING. It's the other way around. The corrupt Biden administration and the corrupt Ukrainian government have conspired to steal billions form the US Treasury. Ukraine owes the American taxpayer some 200 billion dollars.

And speaking personally, I do not give a SHIT about an Eastern European border conflict. That war is not our problem. Understand? Not. Our. Problem. And all the lying horse shit about WWIII arising from it works only on the feeble minded. If that happens to be you, try not to drool on your keyboard.

Furthermore, you have a propensity for insulting me and the members of this forum: https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...660012015#3660012015

Now, I am telling you- the next time you insult me or any member of this forum because we don't want to be used by criminals who claim to be politicians, I am going to remove you from this forum. Go ahead and tell me you don't care. Go ahead. You want to see somebody who doesn't give a shit? Go ahead and give me a reason. Otherwise, just shut the fuck up with your fucking pissing and moaning.

And as for you, Carpentermaass84, drain your bank account to fund Zelenskyy's newest yacht, and get on a plane to sign up to be cannon fodder, but don't think that you're going to get any sympathy from us about this stupid fucking war that most Americans are sick and tired of hearing about. Are you an American citizen? Where's your concern for this nation?

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
I'm not comparing anybody to Hitler, all dictators use the same tactics, I was just trying to make a point.

And you did that by posting the picture of Neville Chamberlain waving the Munich Agreement. Come on.

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
Similarly, Im not saying it's the US job to fix everything, Europe is terrible, always has been.

And yet it keeps falling to us to sort out Europe's problems. Why?

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
However you are the last superpower and everybody is watching your reaction to this - just don't give the MF any encouragement.

I don't think there's much we would or even could do to encourage Putin, aside from electing Kamala Harris. I don't want any more American involvement in the Ukrainian/Russian conflict. None. That this continually draws comparisons to Neville Chamberlain is not only wrong-headed, but idiotic to boot.

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We fought Ho Chi Minh to the tune of about 58,000+ American lives and about $110,000,000,000 - $352,000,000,000. The lives are priceless. At the time there were EXACTLY two communist countries in Southeast Asia and we fought the war to stop the red menace. As a reminder there are EXACTLY two communist countries today: Laos and Vietnam. Oh, Ukraine is just as or more corrupt than South Vietnam was. Ukraine fans, please tell me what you learned from the neocon experience in Vietnam and how Ukraine will be any different. I'm all ears.

I was told by a Russian that lived with her uncle during her senior year in high school (1969) "America's presence in Viet Nam did stifle Russia's takeover of other countries" Her uncle was chief commander of Russian Militia in Kamchatka. I never heard any of my friends regret the time they spent in Viet Nam, nor do I regret the 3 years I was in the Army (1967 thru 1969). I also doubt you have any personal knowledge of Ukraine or Russia. How many Ukrainians' do you know? Ukraine's fight against corruption was the main cause of Putin's aggression. Have you ever been to Crimea? Have you ever been to southern Russia? Do you own a condo 5 blocks from the Rostov Russian Military headquarters? Do you personally know a Russian that recruited mercenaries to fight Ukrainians in Donbas? Do you personally know anyone that lost his multimillion dollar business to Putin's mafia? Do you personally know anyone that has fled Russia to escape Putin's mafia? Do you personally know anyone murdered by Putin? I can say no more without getting immediate family in danger.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Anush,

This will get resolved if Trump is elected. Otherwise, we'll be debating this crap four years from now and still calling each other names. It's a classic quagmire and there is no military solution for Ukraine.

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I don't think there's much we would or even could do to encourage Putin, aside from electing Kamala Harris. I don't want any more American involvement in the Ukrainian/Russian conflict. None. That this continually draws comparisons to Neville Chamberlain is not only wrong-headed, but idiotic to boot.

Well, do you know of any other, recent example of appeasing a dictator that backfired so spectacularly and was caught on camera?

I'm not trying to change anybody's mindset, If you don't want to help - fine, just don't fuck it up for those who'd like to.

Yet again: who is appeasing, and what are we doing or could conceivably do to fuck it up for you guys? Are you saying you don’t want a negotiated peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine? Is that what you’re saying?

It's not a simple "yes" or "no" question, all depends on the terms of the agreement.

Two hundred billion dollars.

This is not and never has been our problem.

The United States should stay out of this. Anyone who lets the fearmongers/grifters convince them that we have to "stop Putin" in this regional conflict is too naive to be telling anyone anything about that mess.

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Originally posted by Anush:
I was told by a Russian that lived with her uncle during her senior year in high school (1969) "America's presence in Viet Nam did stifle Russia's takeover of other countries" Her uncle was chief commander of Russian Militia in Kamchatka. I never heard any of my friends regret the time they spent in Viet Nam, nor do I regret the 3 years I was in the Army (1967 thru 1969). I also doubt you have any personal knowledge of Ukraine or Russia. How many Ukrainians' do you know? Ukraine's fight against corruption was the main cause of Putin's aggression. Have you ever been to Crimea? Have you ever been to southern Russia? Do you own a condo 5 blocks from the Rostov Russian Military headquarters? Do you personally know a Russian that recruited mercenaries to fight Ukrainians in Donbas? Do you personally know anyone that lost his multibillion dollar business to Putin's mafia? Do you personally know anyone that has fled Russia to escape Putin's mafia? Do you personally know anyone murdered by Putin? I can say no more without getting immediate family in danger.

Actually Anush, I work with two Ukrainians and one Russian. All immigrated in the early 2010's, one DBA and two software engineers. As I've been told by them and actually investigating the situation, both countries are the picture of corruption. I could give a fuck about what you were told about "America's presence in Viet Nam did stifle Russia's takeover of other countries". Answer this: Do you think the blood and treasure spent in Vietnam was worth it and do you think it accomplished anything of importance? Do you really think Russia would occupy all of Southeast Asia had we not spent our youngest men and money? The same shit is about to go down in a country that has ZERO strategic importance to the US.

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
However you are the last superpower and everybody is watching your reaction to this - just don't give the MF any encouragement.

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
If you don't want to help - fine, just don't fuck it up for those who'd like to.

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Originally posted by ag111ga:
It's not a simple "yes" or "no" question, all depends on the terms of the agreement.

Quit dancing and just come out and say it.

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I could give a fuck about what you were told about "America's presence in Viet Nam did stifle Russia's takeover of other countries".

Actually that is my wife that you don't give a fuck about. She was a visiting professor at U of Illinois when I met her in 1996

O.K.
Some territorial losses (much less than what's under Russian occupation now) - acceptable.
Disarming and neutering of the country's defense - unacceptable
So called "neutrality" and resignation from NATO and EU membership - unacceptable, as it'd only be a prelude to the round two.
No lifting of any sanctions until the appropriate reparations are paid in full.

Is that what you wanted to hear?

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Originally posted by Anush:

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I could give a fuck about what you were told about "America's presence in Viet Nam did stifle Russia's takeover of other countries".

Actually that is my wife that you don't give a fuck about>

Anush, I apologize for my gruff response. I should have said many facts have proven her wrong on the US stopping the Red Menace. I just don't wont the US, in the fiscal and military situation we're in, to get involved in a problem that Europe should solve. If this continues there will be NATO (US) boots on the ground. Agree?

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So called "neutrality" and resignation from NATO and EU membership - unacceptable, as it'd only be a prelude to the round two.

Actually round 4. Georgia 2008, Donetsk area of Donbas & Crimea 2014, then Ukraine again 2022, I suspect round 4 will be the rest of Georgia. The US had a long term military presence in Georgia until recently. After Georgia, then Armenia as they are making overtures to the West and all Russian military has been kicked out.

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Originally posted by echidna:
The number of surrender monkeys on supposedly patriotic 2A-loving forums is surprising.

Well, I guess you're a Harris voter. Admit it. Trump is going to shut down this clown show, and Harris would have loved to keep this criminal shitshow going for the Bidens, Obamas, Cheneys, Pelosis, etc. A money-laundering operation involving the Bidens, and all of the rest of the Uniparty deep-state scumbags. And as I have always said, Zelenskyy is a gold digging whore, a corrupt world-class scumbag who will one day get his just desserts.