quote:

Originally posted by Anush:
This thread bothers me. The war has cost my wife & I our retirement home & about $10,000 in cash sits in a bank account we can not access. My bother-in-law has lost far more. None of these personal monetary losses mean anything to us if Putin can be defeated. The US & all countries must take a stand against Putin. If he is not stopped now, he & his successors will continue the aggression. Poland & the Baltic states know this & have given far more per capita than the US. I am not the only Sig Forum member that has been directly affected.

This war should have never even started in the first place!

Biden via who ever controls that husk of a man GOADED Putin into it

Do you really think Trump would have let this all happen? No freaking way.

FVZ has the goods on the dirty and vastly corrupt dealings of FJB and the rest of the criminal cabal running amok in D.C. which includes MANY self-proclaimed R’s.

This non-stop rolling cluster-fuck of a shit-show isn’t going to end until a micro-comet or two obliterates The Swamp.

quote:

Originally posted by walkinghorse:
Think of the money that is going to be spent in rebuilding when that time comes, if it does?
Where is that coming from?
Return on investment?
Corruption?

A lot will be from seized russian assets.

quote:

Originally posted by Anush:
This thread bothers me. The war has cost my wife & I our retirement home & about $10,000 in cash sits in a bank account we can not access. My bother-in-law has lost far more. None of these personal monetary losses mean anything to us if Putin can be defeated. The US & all countries must take a stand against Putin. If he is not stopped now, he & his successors will continue the aggression. Poland & the Baltic states know this & have given far more per capita than the US. I am not the only Sig Forum member that has been directly affected.

Well, the sad fact of life is that this war will not end until one thing happens. And that is for us in the West to stop funding it. Unless you're advocating for all out world war. is that what you're asking for? Because that is what it will take to stop Putin. Utter world wide devastation.

Short of that, we must stop sending billions of our dollars straight into a raging furnace, because we're only feeding the fire and getting nothing but misery for everyone involved in return.

In the words of Ash, I can't lie to you about your chances, but you have my sympathies.

Ditto. Very corpus about all of he funds already sent to this country...who's pockets are lined? 4 Billion as of date?

The world has always been experienced the forces of good and evil. Always has been that way and always will be.

Do we ignore the forces of evil because they aren't on our beaches? Seems shortsighted to say that it's not our problem while we watch evil roll over other countries.

Russia is evil for what they do. If they just stayed in Russia it would be fine but Putin can't do that so he pushes and we have to push back. We're spending money to counter Russia regardless and the fight is there on their land and their people are dying in the fight and are willing to die too.

Other than the price, is the cause of resisting against Russia's expansion and invasion otherwise acceptable? If one agrees that opposing Russia is the right response, they all we're talking about is the cost.

No one can help you when you've been brainwashed. If you think we should throw billions of dollars into a country every time "evil" is exhibited, then you must want to bankrupt this nation.

Your oversimplification of this matter is nauseating.

For people supporting this conflict, I have to ask...Have you got children (or grandchildren) to send over there/feed into the shredder if and when it comes to that? This isn't going to stop unless we stop funding it! When it becomes a 'Blood AND Treasure' investment, are you ALL IN for Ukraine?

I strongly agree with the notion of no more money or weapons for Ukraine! I have always felt that we should not have gotten involved.

Amen Para.. The United States has been allowed to become the policeman of the world for way too long..... Over the many years past the United States has given untold billions and billions of dollars to many countries undergoing conflicts of many different reasons. ... Some of these countries have been feuding and fighting since the time of Christ and those Washington politicians think that if we send unholy amounts of money that The United States will be able to influence the outcome of these disputes. .... How many of these countries that we sent untold amounts of money has repaid a single cent of these monies????? How many of these countries begged the United States for help and have since turned on us and are calling for our destruction by either their own citizens or encourging other citizens of other countries to act on their request????? The United States has got to stop sending all of these monies to ungrateful recieptants and take care of our own citizens and to protect them from all enemies both forgein and domestic.. ......... And how many years did the United States pay the member dues to the United Nations for USSR/Russia and other countries without being repayed the monies. ............................ drill sgt.

While I am empathic towards the Ukrainian people and believe Putin is evil, this is an unnecessary war and conflict for the United States--whose vital interests are not at stake. The Russians early on made clear their lines in the sand--and these lines had long historical antecedents. There are no surprises. I am not into conspiracies, but I do wonder if the Biden connections were a means for the Ukrainians to get the US to do their bidding. In other words, who benefits from this war? The vast expenditures to support the Ukrainians could have gone to funding priorities inside the United States, as many have pointed out.

yep. since about week 2 of this conflict I can spot the liberal hive mindset by the number of Ukraine flags associated with their posts/usernames etc. The less contemplative thought someone gives this the more likely you'll see extra blue/yellow symbols pasted on everything.

..and I'm not referring to any posts or users here, specifically the Twitter-verse

quote:

Originally posted by photohause:
Ditto. Very corpus about all of he funds already sent to this country...who's pockets are lined? 4 Billion as of date?

America has 30 billion to date and Europe is at 70 billion. If I am correct, we spend 700 billion anually on our defense and Russia invests 50 into theirs of which a large amount is stolen by the wealthy upper class. They are no less corrupt than Ukraine.

While I don't hold the same opinion as Para on the value of supporting Ukraine in this particular fight, the hero worship for their president has clearly gotten out of control. His constituents weren't exactly happy with him before they were invaded, they just had bigger problems once the missiles started falling. I think the medals and champagne should probably wait until he manages to get his country to the end of the war without ending up obliterated. Even now, there are plenty of people in Ukraine who would not vote for the guy again were they able to hold elections, and not because they support Russia. The man had his own problems with corruption and the effectiveness of his government. We may not ever find out how much of that corruption was rooted out, and how much was just paid off with donated money. The photo ops and rush to give him all the awards and accolades possible just feels like grandstanding at this point.

Patron, on the other hand, is stinkin' cute and out there saving lives by hunting down explosives. They can give that little dog as many medals and awards as they want!

- Bret

More than just democrats are all in for this war as I seem to recall one Senator from S. Carolina and some others, telling Zelenskyy how America is in this with them untill the end. What's in this for Graham and his gang?

It has been awhile since I have read anything I agree with more than the op. I have tried to say so here and was met with resistance from the usual's.

Thank you Para.

I'll add an Amen. I'm more than tired of everything Ukraine. I feel for the citizens but never really got onboard with the "it's our responsibility to supply them with whatever they need".

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
…I am not a political expert or a military strategist, it seems to me that there is no way that the Ukraine can prevail in this war.

If I may ask, Para, what is your basis for your assessment that Ukraine cannot prevail in this war?

At this point Russia has had two rounds of drafts. This was supposed to be the second most powerful army in the world. According to many military “experts” in February of last year, this “special military operation” was supposed to be over in three days.

Agree with most everything I've read, especially the comments about people casually suggesting we "put boots on the ground." No, but fuck no. "But Russia is evil and doing evil" things. Not my problem, and you know what? If they take over Ukraine, it will still not be my problem. We cannot, should not attempt to solve all of the world's problems. We don't even have our shit together over here. "Our defense budget exists to destroy our enemies and now we can actually use the stuff to do that without losing American lives." Yeah? I didn't approve that, and I pay taxes. You got a background in flying or cruising around the planet on Uncle Sam's dime and that's your opinion, but it doesn't make those of us who didn't unqualified to have one. No, we need to stop provoking a conflict that isn't going to serve American interests beyond what some Cold War veterans think would be super neato.

You wanna talk history? Everyone seems to stop at about the 1930's. How about Rome's conquest of Britain? That ultimately broke that fucking empire. Funding proxy wars amidst tribes on the other end of the known world, meddling around in places they shouldn't have been while things at a home deteriorated into coups, infighting, disease, and riots. We just wrapped up twenty plus years at war, spending the blood of the generations everyone loves to shit on in places we didn't want or need, and that went so well and wasn't satisfying enough that we need to do it again in Europe. Nope.

quote:

Originally posted by Broadside:
If I may ask, Para, what is your basis for your assessment that Ukraine cannot prevail in this war?

Without the entire world holding Zelenskyy's hand, what do you think would have happened? Today- right now- if we hadn't been throwing billions at crooked Ukraine, who do you think might be sitting in the President's office in Kyiv?